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The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

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Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true in some sense, it does have more knowledge than the average person.

I wonder how much knowledge can be decoupled from experience, if at all. If I read thousands of books that explain the details of another civilization in another galaxy, very thoroughly and consistently, but it it just happens to be all made up - did I gain knowledge? More importantly, does what I have in my brain now flip from being fiction to being knowledge if that civilization flipped from not existing to existin…

> If I read thousands of books that explain the details of another civilization in another galaxy, very thoroughly and consistently, but it it just happens to be all made up - did I gain knowledge?

sounds a lot like math - made up entities that very thoroughly and consistently fit together.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#62
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is like saying we can get unlimited data compression by feeding the output of a data compressing program into its own input..

Not it's not like saying that at all.

Yes, that is exactly like it.

Generating new training data from existing data will only generate patterns that already exist in the training data. It might help LLMs to capture it if has not already. But it can never generate novel patterns.

For example, Imagine some kind of neural network architecture that can do OCR. You might be able to generate variations of the letters it already know using some technique and use it to better train the recognition of already known letters.

But it would never be able to generate letters that it does not know.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#63
post #13

Human intelligence is fundamentally motivated by fear and desire, whereas AI operates on an entirely different paradigm. AI lacks human embodiment, and it lacks the political landscapes born out of complex social relationships. Can we truly equate AI's 'intelligence' with what humans call intelligence? Should we even be calling its functionality 'intelligence' at all? The author argues that overreliance on AI will de…

Great thoughts.

The decline brought by writing was not only in memorization. If in previous ages to understand something was to study deeply, eventually the definition may shift to having asked ChatGPT about it and skimmed through the response. This is discussed thorougly in Technopoly, which I'm still reading.

You should also consider that besides the effects of AI adoption in highly technical and scholarly people it will also affect a majority of average workers who may be more vulnerable to atrophy than others.

Not only that, but eventually AI will be native and people's perspective and usage will not be affected by previous generation habits. If people hardly bother to write their own emails, comments or essays then how will the AI-native generation approach that?

Although you make very solid points, I've been leaning to think that the AI effect on society will be shaped by the average user, not users such as yourself and the colleagues you observe in which case the doom-saying starts to make better sense.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#64
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there is a strong case to make that many of their limitations come from them doing what we have told them to do. Hallucinations are the stand out example of this. If you train it to give answers to questions, it will answer questions, but it might have to make up the answer to do so. This isn't not knowing that it does not know. This is doing the task given to it regardless of whether it knows or not. Are y…

It should be trained to answer when it knows the answer, and to state that it does not know the answer when it does not. They might already have a very good understanding of not knowing internally, but are just not trained to express that. This is not a problem in the ability of the system, it is a problem of how to construct training for such a task. To provide training examples where it answers it does not know the…

> It should be trained to answer when it knows the answer, and to state that it does not know the answer when it does not

Do LLMs even have any kind of internal model of what they know or don't know? My understanding is that they don't.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#65
post #2

Just wondering... What is Intellgience?

One measure is the ability to find an optimal solution among many options. From solving an integration problem (option = equation, optimal = correct) to life (option = life choice, optimal = best QOL).

Statistically, an LLM finds a better optimal solution than one individual. But LLM solutions are more similar to each other than individuals’, so among many individuals, a few find a better optimal solution than the LLMs.

Hence why I think we need AI that responds more uniquely. Whether that be fine-tuned local models, one LLM that’s more influenced by its prompt and well-supports extremely long prompts, AI tools for humans, or something else. I’d love to see a local AI with continuous learning that generates complex UX to better interact with the user (more than prompts), but that may be far-fetched…

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#67
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a good answer. But I have a good reason to say LLMs are not intelligent. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47918103

If you can’t define it you cannot say where it is present or not.

yeah! Just like gravity, which we all know is, uh, umm, uh, hold on a second,

Wait, I meant light, yeah, photons! It's photons all the way down! And what are photons you ask? shit, no more questions. Got to go.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#68
post #2

Just wondering... What is Intellgience?

The definition I give to my children: It is the ability to make good decisions.

That is a very reasonable definition, but having grown up playing Dungeons & Dragons, making good decisions strikes me as Wisdom, not Intelligence.

Very "intelligent" people can use those smarts to justify or rationalize all kinds of crazy stupid decisions.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#69
post #13

Human intelligence is fundamentally motivated by fear and desire, whereas AI operates on an entirely different paradigm. AI lacks human embodiment, and it lacks the political landscapes born out of complex social relationships. Can we truly equate AI's 'intelligence' with what humans call intelligence? Should we even be calling its functionality 'intelligence' at all? The author argues that overreliance on AI will de…

Great thoughts. The decline brought by writing was not only in memorization. If in previous ages to understand something was to study deeply, eventually the definition may shift to having asked ChatGPT about it and skimmed through the response. This is discussed thorougly in Technopoly, which I'm still reading. You should also consider that besides the effects of AI adoption in highly technical and scholarly people i…

I agree with your point.

We are all shaped by the cultural and social environments we come from, so my perspective is based on the context I’ve experienced. That difference itself is what I find interesting. These kinds of cultural and intellectual frictions make me think more deeply.

I also agree that asking good questions requires some level of foundational knowledge. But at the same time, it’s difficult to ask good questions without that foundation. As you mentioned, more experienced users will likely benefit more from AI.

Still, I think humans tend to find ways to adapt to these kinds of challenges, so it’s possible that new forms of education will emerge. For example, ways of learning how to use cognitive tools like LLMs effectively.

That said, I admit this is an optimistic view. In reality, as you pointed out, the gap will likely widen. People from more educated backgrounds will be better positioned to use these tools effectively, while others may fall further behind.

I agree with your perspective, and I appreciate your thoughts. It’s interesting to see so many different viewpoints—these differences are what make discussions like this engaging.

Have a great day.

Re: The Social Edge of Intelligence: Individual Gain, Collective Loss

#70
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not true. We can detect the presence of a thing by the observation of something it causes. That does not imply we have a good definition of the thing. At that point, we can only define it as something that causes this observation. And that is not very useful.

We might both agree its a poor definition, but at least it's a poor definition that's observable and neutral. That's useful in regards to this conversation. Where as the other answer is simply "I can't say, but it's not [this]" and that isn't useful at all. It's simply opinion, which is literally the worst definition around. Personally, I don't define intelligence as "whatever qsera acknowledges as intelligence with…

I think it is useless as a definition, so not even a poor one.

But here you go, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47918103

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