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Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

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Re: Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

#61

Post by Aunche »

deadbabe wrote: post #5

Knowing how kids are, they will just snicker and skirt their way around these bans anyway thinking they are some super bad ass. This is mostly symbolic.

Cigarettes don't get less addictive when they are banned. On the other hand, a kid is less inclined to use social media if most of their friends aren't on it. They're less likely to post a video on TikTok if there is a significant chance it will be removed if it goes viral. Even if the majority of kids continue to use social media, some of them will follow the rules and they can avoid social media without missing out on socialization altogether.

Re: Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

#62

Post by pokstad »

seniorThrowaway wrote: post #27

The liability shifting and real identity linking to all online usage that big tech wants is proceeding nicely for them I see.

This. Big tech shouldn’t rely on ID laws. We should hold big tech liable when we find them in violation. Shift the onus to them.

Re: Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

#63

Post by benj111 »

dataflow wrote: post #8
benj111 wrote: post #2

Is there any evidence for all this? This sums up my understanding of the current situation ( https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/understand-the-im... ) That isn't anywhere near definitive. Further it seems to me, this will just allow the tech companies to assume there are no kids, and remove the protections currently available. Yes there is an issue of quantity, but it seems that we should be focussing on soci…

> Is there any evidence for all this? > I'm not 100% sure I don't think anybody was 100% sure social media would be the best thing since sliced bread when they subjected humanity to the experiment, so I don't think you have a whole ton of reason to freak out here. Either they're wrong and can keep moving forward, or they're right and can backtrack. The children will survive and so will you. L

Isn't that a bit naïve though? Will it actually get rolled back? Seems to me we've added another level of officialdom and it's never going to go.

The next generation of plucky startups now have more hoops to jump through, creating a moat around the incumbents.

And even if it is harmful, why is a complete ban the best approach? The internet is a tool. Should you not let kids cook because they might harm themselves? Or do you teach them, so that they can avoid hurting themselves in the future? While avoiding the downside of bringing up kids who can't cook?

Re: Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

#64

Post by walrus01 »

There's a solid point to be made about the problem with brainrot algorithms and slop content pushed by default to every (instagram, tiktok, facebook, whatever) user even without banning anything. People in tech who've curated their social media feeds to unfollow/block/dislike brainrot content should seriously sit down with the phone of an average 15 year old (or 75 year old) and spend an hour scrolling.

I am equally as worried about slop content being pushed to the social media feeds of gullible people of the older gen-x and boomer generations as I am of young people. The general problem of human attention span being monetized as a commodity for social manipulation, political manipulation and just generally selling things (the advertising industry in general) is getting worse, not better.

Re: Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

#65

Post by bitwize »

> government: bans social media for under 16.

> hackernews: "Good. It's about time government took action. The only cure for these abusive capitalist companies is government regulation."

> government: passes law requiring age verification at the OS level

> hackernews: "Oh no! How could this happen? We have to fight this you guys. For sure if it weren't for big tech lobbyists we wouldn't have to worry about draconian laws like this."

Re: Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

#67

Post by marliechiller »

dude250711 wrote: post #36

Should be banned for under 40s and over 70s really... Also ban giving toddlers iPads with YouTube.

hah - 50 year olds have been amongst the worst offenders from what I've experienced. The only generation that I can see that hasnt completely fallen is the generation that were young adults just around the time facebook first released, i.e Millenials. They grew up with the internet but werent enslaved to it like the generation after (Gen Z). Meanwhile the generation above (Gen X) didnt have the survival instincts fostered whilst growing up with the internet so fall foul of all sorts of fake news pieces etc

Re: Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

#68

Post by NicuCalcea »

sarchertech wrote: post #21
deadbabe wrote: post #5

Knowing how kids are, they will just snicker and skirt their way around these bans anyway thinking they are some super bad ass. This is mostly symbolic.

Depends on how it’s enforced. The data we have on bans on underage drinking and smoking show that they work. Some kids will still smoke and drink, but the number is reduced, drunk driving accidents go down, and eventually fewer adults abuse alcohol and smoke cigarettes. The myth about age limits making it forbidden and attracting more kids to do it is just that it’s a myth. Spend some time looking at the studies. The…

There are a few differences. For one, it's much easier to regulate the sale of alcohol and tobacco, the level of friction is much higher and usually involves an in-person interaction with an adult. Visiting some dodgy website or downloading a VPN is much easier.

Second, the peer pressure to drink/smoke has never been as strong as the network effect of social media. Almost all 15-year-olds are on some form of social media, I don't think you can reasonably expect they will suddenly stop wanting to socialise outside school. Their entire identities are built around their online presence; that was never the case with smoking or drinking, at least not on this scale.

I'm sure it will have some effect, but kids are clever, and they have lots of time, they will find ways to bypass these fairly weak bans. Imo, the only way to do this is to provide an alternative along with the ban, like what the Russians are doing with Max as a replacement for Telegram/WhatsApp, though that's not entirely successful either.

Re: Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

#69

Post by naravara »

firefax wrote: post #52

The issue is not the age you come online, it's what happens when you do. Delaying from 13 (COPPA) to 16 won't change a thing. When I was a kid, I was obsessed with Home Alone -- I thought if I had one of those talkboys, I could get some changes made. But in an age where every teen has a recording device in their pocket, I continue to see the kinds of stories that made my blood boil... because when it came time to get…

> Delaying from 13 (COPPA) to 16 won't change a thing.

There’s been a decent amount of studies to suggest it can actually, since you’ll be pushing the uptake of social media outside the peak age range where things like bullying, body image issues, grooming, etc. start to happen and, therefore, limiting the harm.

It’s also a time when a lot of life-habits start to get set down since 12-13 is when kids start having to assume more responsibility for themselves and begin learning how they manage their time, build their study habits, etc. Not being habituated into doomscrolling during that period seems like it can only be healthy. It’s not as if they’d be cut off from the internet entirely, they’d still have Wikipedia and all the boring, non-attention sapping parts of the web. And they’d still be able to direct-message or group-chat with their friends. They’re just spared the algorithmic feeds.

Re: Norway set to become latest country to ban social media for under 16s

#70

Post by mytailorisrich »

pj_mukh wrote: post #59
mytailorisrich wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a parenting issue. As a parent you can only get your children a smartphone when you decide they are old enough, and then iOS and Android have parental control down to app level. Decent schools also ban phones now as well.

"Decent schools also ban phones now as well." Yes and decent countries ban social media, because like schools, the countries recognize this is a collective action issue. You get your children a smartphone when it becomes the only way they can connect with their peers. That's my point.

That's very different from schools banning use of phone during school hours. And, no, your role as parent is not to blindly follow the herd if you think it is not good. That's certainly true for smartphones and, again, there is parental control if/when you get your children a smartphone.

You can only bring a horse to water, as the saying goes...

My cynical take is that social media are a convenient tool for government to justify more identification and control. ID cards, digital IDs, age verification systems, lack of anonymity, etc almost literally justified by "just think of the children".

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