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The Abstraction Fallacy: Why AI Can Simulate but Not Instantiate Consciousness

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Re: The Abstraction Fallacy: Why AI Can Simulate but Not Instantiate Consciousness

#61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would have to change about future systems to make you think they're conscious in a way that modern systems aren't? That is to say, what evidence would you need from a system in order to think that it's conscious?

One big reason I don't think LLMs are (currently) conscious is because they are static. They do not change in response to input. I think they need some kind of temporal awareness (not just a 5-minute cron job), and some mechanism for self-modification or active learning based on their input. If an experience flows through them and leaves them completely unchanged, are they actually conscious of the experience? But, i…

> One big reason I don't think LLMs are (currently) conscious is because they are static

It is true that the LLM itself is static. However it's context window is self-modifiable, based on its inputs and outputs.

> I think they need some kind of temporal awareness... and some mechanism for self-modification or active learning based on their input.

Why?! (besides, they do, see above)

I bring this example up, and it's clear evidence in humans that neither of these things are required for consciousness, and one that I deal with in my home. People with dementia that have no memory that are no longer able to learn suffer a different issue that not being conscious.

> If an experience flows through them and leaves them completely unchanged, are they actually conscious of the experience?

This line of thinking precludes dementia patients with no retention of memory are not conscious.

I agree having an experience, and being conscious of that experience are two different things, though.

Re: The Abstraction Fallacy: Why AI Can Simulate but Not Instantiate Consciousness

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the evidence that non-human animals have the "fuzzy cognitive concept" we call consciousness, but Claude "really does not"? I personally have not been ignoring animal consciousness in how I think about the possibility of AI consciousness and I don't see how animals having consciousness means that AI can't.

I could have phrased it better, but the emphasis is on "fuzzy"! There isn't any evidence for any of this, it's pre-scientific. My statement is an opinionated position on how we should direct our research efforts and ascertain what is plausible: the behavioral similarities between humans and cats are much more relevant to the question of consciousness than the behavior similarities between humans and Claude, because c…

a. Cats are obviously conscious

b. There are almost no behavioral similarities between cats and Claude

.

d. Therefore claude can not be conscious.

You are missing: c. Everything conscious must behave like a cat.

This logic is clearly not sound. I don't think you're position is a coherent one.

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