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How Big Tech wrote secrecy into EU law to hide data centres' environmental toll

investigate-europe.eu

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Re: How Big Tech wrote secrecy into EU law to hide data centres' environmental toll

#61

Post by direwolf20 »

RandomLensman wrote: post #29
TeMPOraL wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think in terms of a dynamic system. Or in terms of "selfish gene", as I've observed it to be easier to talk about. Any single person or group in a corporation is expendable. You can swap out the sales department or a CEO, and the corporation will continue on its course without a pause or major change of direction. No single person or group of people is in total control of the direction - what directs the corporation…

If there is a single owner, could shut down the place, for example. As I said, in my experience, the humans - interchangible or not, as customers, competitors, owners etc - determine what happens, not the corporation itself. Can look at a corporate as "living thing" itself, but I think that underestimates the human side.

Individual neurons determine how your arm moves, but we still speak of a human as a whole being that makes decisions.

Re: How Big Tech wrote secrecy into EU law to hide data centres' environmental toll

#62

Post by tgv »

direwolf20 wrote: post #61
RandomLensman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a single owner, could shut down the place, for example. As I said, in my experience, the humans - interchangible or not, as customers, competitors, owners etc - determine what happens, not the corporation itself. Can look at a corporate as "living thing" itself, but I think that underestimates the human side.

Individual neurons determine how your arm moves, but we still speak of a human as a whole being that makes decisions.

Then again, there are 100 billion highly interconnected neurons without a CEO, a CFO, a CTO, a COO, etc. Thinking that from 50, 500 or even 5000 barely connected people with exterior motivation some higher intelligence can emerge is naive. Do not anthropomorphize.

Re: How Big Tech wrote secrecy into EU law to hide data centres' environmental toll

#63

Post by TeMPOraL »

tgv wrote: post #62
direwolf20 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual neurons determine how your arm moves, but we still speak of a human as a whole being that makes decisions.

Then again, there are 100 billion highly interconnected neurons without a CEO, a CFO, a CTO, a COO, etc. Thinking that from 50, 500 or even 5000 barely connected people with exterior motivation some higher intelligence can emerge is naive. Do not anthropomorphize.

> 50, 500 or even 5000 barely connected people

5000 barely connected people isn't a corporation, it's a mob. A corporation has more to it.

In fact people aren't much more important that the software that runs on them. Because that's what all the bureaucracy is - all those rules and bylaws and contractual obligations and checklists and playbooks and regulation - software running on a runtime made of meat, one form letter or internal memo at a time.

Most of the time, losing people is to corporation what clipping a toe nail is to an adult, or a bit flip to a modern computer - a non-event you barely notice and carry on.

> higher intelligence can emerge

Nobody said "higher intelligence". I mentioned animals, ant supercolonies, but the same patterns of behavior is visible in even most basic multi-cellular and single-cellular organisms.

> Do not anthropomorphize.

Nobody says you need to.

(Except with LLMs, where refusing to do so means you'll just remain confused about what can or cannot, should or should not, be done with them.)

Re: How Big Tech wrote secrecy into EU law to hide data centres' environmental toll

#64

Post by asyx »

menno-sh wrote: post #45
an0malous wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey at least all your devices use USB-C and there’s alternative app stores no one really uses

Add being able to use your data plan throughout the EU without roaming costs and we're back at two for three.

GDPR made rating agencies a lot more transparent than they used to be. There was a lot of guessing about why your Schufa score might be bad in Germany. I can now get a detailed breakdown of the data they have of me for free.

Re: How Big Tech wrote secrecy into EU law to hide data centres' environmental toll

#65

Post by worik »

postepowanieadm wrote: post #25

EU has a really big problem with lobbing/corruption. Qatargate, russian connections, von der Leyen–Pfizer affair.

States, generally, have to combat corruption.

This is an example. The corrupting influence of "Big money" up against transparency

Transparency helps, especially in Europe where civil society runs deep.

My mind is blown by the USAnian president blatantly grafting, out in the open, and it is not a political liability. Many political analysts think that is what cost Orbán the Hungarian election

Re: How Big Tech wrote secrecy into EU law to hide data centres' environmental toll

#66

Post by ahf8Aithaex7Nai »

an0malous wrote: post #38
jimnotgym wrote: post #6

I have complete confidence the EU will realise this may violate transparency laws, it will go to court in 7-8 years, publish a response in the next 5 finally getting this law fixed in about 2040. They always get these things right, in the end

Hey at least all your devices use USB-C and there’s alternative app stores no one really uses

> alternative app stores no one really uses

It’s not "no one", but rather "almost no one". The difference is small, but still big enough to make room for me and a surprisingly large number of my friends and acquaintances—including our raised middle fingers.

We don't have to be in the majority; the main thing is that there's a niche for us. If the whole world is smoking crack, that's not ideal. But at least we don't have to go along with it.

Re: How Big Tech wrote secrecy into EU law to hide data centres' environmental toll

#67

Post by pastage »

will4274 wrote: post #51
pastage wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not want a modern datacenter near people.

Why? Datacenters have smaller effects on neighbors than other industries. No runoff like farming, no pollution like factories

Modern datacenters use local power generation that means lots of bad pollution worse than most factories. There is really bad sound pollution from many of them. They are enormous and create barriers where people should be able to move around.

Re: How Big Tech wrote secrecy into EU law to hide data centres' environmental toll

#68

Post by kvgr »

billynomates wrote: post #20
kvgr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is corruption and it is in capitalism, socialism and communism. Corruption is everywhere all the time. Capitalism is just redistribution of resources. There is also redistribution of resources in communism and there the corruption i would say is even bigger. Less in amount for one specific person, but spread out throught society that it rots from inside.

Capitalism is not the redistribution of resources. It is an economic system in which the means of production are owned by private owners, as opposed to collectively. In theory, full communism prevents corruption by removing its structural causes rather than relying on laws or moral exhortation. And since corruption under capitalism (in Marxist analysis) stems from private ownership, class divisions, and the scramble…

You must be joking right?
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