Earlier quoted context omitted.
At the risk of feeding this troll, I'll go for it here. Men and women are essentially different in real biological ways, as well as emotional and socialization. For millennia, women and children have been held innocent and protected. This is why Christian societies don't throw them on the frontlines as cannon fodder, but rather, the men go in front and the men fight, as expendables, while the woman and children can b…
I think you have a misconception of how modern militaries work and think every one is out with a gun fighting. Only around 10% of the US military is in combat roles.
Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
61–70 of 126 posts
Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
#62I cannot understand how German men can be expected to fight while women are exempt. It's pure sexism against men and also very insulting to women. I'm opposed to conscription in general, but I live in Sweden with gender-neutral conscription laws, and I would do my best to defend my country if it became necessary. If I were a man in an alternate version of Sweden with male-only conscription, I would feel so disrespect…
Article 12a of the German constitution states:
"(1) Men may be called up for service in the armed forces, the Federal Border Guard, or a civil defence unit upon reaching the age of eighteen."
The current administration has a majority, I think three votes (excuse my inaccuracy), to change the constitution. Women can fight as well, and they do. But there is currently no legal, constitutional way to officially draft them.
Some of the toughest soldiers I trained were women. I got put on my back on international cqc training exchanges by Israeli women more often than by anyone else.
Also, most of the high-profile politicians only have daughters, take the German Chancellor (two daughters) or the Prime Minister of Bavaria (1 1/2 daughters). They don’t have any personal interest that their daughters might get drafted. That’s another dimension to the problem.
Women in general are a great military asset, as they provide a non-male perspective you won’t get only working with testosterone-dominated brains.
It’s not like women don’t want to protect their fellow citizens.
It’s that the German military has huge structural problems to include them into the force properly, and the people in charge also know that, for a lot of men serving, they are still not equal, and a lot of men in the service don’t want to fight alongside a woman and trust them to have their back.
It’s a mix of toxic masculinity bred inside the military and a lack of combat experience alongside women. If you ask any American or Israeli soldier who fought alongside women in actual combat, it will be tough to find anyone to critique their value as soldiers or questioning their equality in the service.
I also appreciate your female perspective on this very much. But Sweden, in terms of gender equality, is miles ahead of Germany in many places. And to be fair, Swedish women live a more independent and less male-reliant model of relationships and live than most people on this planet.
The German defence minister acknowledges this, btw, by often talking about how implementing the "Swedish model" would raise a next generation of soldiers with a more modern view of freedom and responsibility that is more balanced between the genders than the current conservative societal model in Germany that is the man goes to work, the woman stays at home and takes care of the kids and the man fights to protect them if necessary.
Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
#63Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
#64I cannot understand how German men can be expected to fight while women are exempt. It's pure sexism against men and also very insulting to women. I'm opposed to conscription in general, but I live in Sweden with gender-neutral conscription laws, and I would do my best to defend my country if it became necessary. If I were a man in an alternate version of Sweden with male-only conscription, I would feel so disrespect…
> I would do my best to defend my country if it became necessary I still don't understand this in my 40s and after serving in military (conscription) - why would you defend any country? I can't imagine scenario when I am defending any country just because some other management wanna take over, I mean, what's the point risking your life for having different politicians maybe speaking different language. If you fight p…
You defend yourself, your family, your relatives and your friends.
You are not strong enough to defend these by yourself, so you can do this only by joining the army of the country in such cases.
It would be great if these kinds of actions would have become unnecessary in the modern society, but wars are still started by despicable humans like Putin, Trump and their associates, and there are even hundreds of millions of people who appear to approve such actions.
In the distant past there have existed a few "civilized" wars, where for much of the population it did not matter who won the war, because that just meant that they would pay the same taxes as before to a different authority, but they would just go on with their lives.
However, this has never happened again in modern wars.
In modern wars, the winners do not really have any use for the inhabitants of the occupied territory, so even when they avoid to kill them, they will just steal in one form or another most of what they own and they will discriminate them in various ways.
Especially the Russians have a long history of stealing everything they could from their neighbors after winning any war against them and making any conquered people 2nd class citizens, who had to give up their language, culture and history, and replace that with praising their Russian conquerors, rebranded as "liberators".
So when faced with something like a Russian invasion, which is a real risk for any neighbor of Russia, there is only one way of survival, which is "defending the country".
This is not some theory devoid of content, like the propaganda that American soldiers should invade for instance Cuba, because this "defends the interests of their country" (which is code for defending the interests of a few ultra-rich people).
When you are in Europe, there is a non-null risk that you might be forced in the future to "defend your country", as the only means for your own survival.
Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
#65I cannot understand how German men can be expected to fight while women are exempt. It's pure sexism against men and also very insulting to women. I'm opposed to conscription in general, but I live in Sweden with gender-neutral conscription laws, and I would do my best to defend my country if it became necessary. If I were a man in an alternate version of Sweden with male-only conscription, I would feel so disrespect…
Women can help the front line fighters but if I was running a country I would not want to put a large number of women on the front, especially young women. Sure they can fight and kill. But a country that loses its ability to make more people won't last longer than a generation. Two things a country needs from which all other needs derive: people and a border that can be defended. Men historically get sacrificed to p…
Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
At the risk of feeding this troll, I'll go for it here. Men and women are essentially different in real biological ways, as well as emotional and socialization. For millennia, women and children have been held innocent and protected. This is why Christian societies don't throw them on the frontlines as cannon fodder, but rather, the men go in front and the men fight, as expendables, while the woman and children can b…
We already disgrace ourselves by having some of the core ideologies of our society being blatant lies. We have been repeatedly told that "equality" is primordial to our values. That men had to forego their privileges in the name of it. The hypocrisy of the defenders of those ideas suddenly being so complacent when we look at the other side of the coin is revolting.
Because as a man myself I honestly wouldn't be able to say which privileges I've lost that my forefathers enjoyed, besides sexism with impunity. In fact, I have it easier, for the time being at least. No military conscription for one. And with the recognition that the patriarchy hurts all I've been able to actualize myself in a way that is more authentic to myself than the constraints of past generations would have allowed.
Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
#67I cannot understand how German men can be expected to fight while women are exempt. It's pure sexism against men and also very insulting to women. I'm opposed to conscription in general, but I live in Sweden with gender-neutral conscription laws, and I would do my best to defend my country if it became necessary. If I were a man in an alternate version of Sweden with male-only conscription, I would feel so disrespect…
Women can help the front line fighters but if I was running a country I would not want to put a large number of women on the front, especially young women. Sure they can fight and kill. But a country that loses its ability to make more people won't last longer than a generation. Two things a country needs from which all other needs derive: people and a border that can be defended. Men historically get sacrificed to p…
By and large, women stopped "sacrificing" a while ago, globally - or at least reduced it by large numbers.
Which is completely fine.
But it makes the original point moot.
Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you have a misconception of how modern militaries work and think every one is out with a gun fighting. Only around 10% of the US military is in combat roles.
The US military does not do combat, look at real engaged armies like the Ukranian/Russian one which are the closest examples to modern warfare between nation states.
Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
At the risk of feeding this troll, I'll go for it here. Men and women are essentially different in real biological ways, as well as emotional and socialization. For millennia, women and children have been held innocent and protected. This is why Christian societies don't throw them on the frontlines as cannon fodder, but rather, the men go in front and the men fight, as expendables, while the woman and children can b…
We already disgrace ourselves by having some of the core ideologies of our society being blatant lies. We have been repeatedly told that "equality" is primordial to our values. That men had to forego their privileges in the name of it. The hypocrisy of the defenders of those ideas suddenly being so complacent when we look at the other side of the coin is revolting.
Care to name a few?
Re: Germany suspends military approval for long stays abroad for men under 45
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
The US military does not do combat, look at real engaged armies like the Ukranian/Russian one which are the closest examples to modern warfare between nation states.
How do you mean? I see daily videos of Russian men being killed by drones.