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NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

grocerydive.com

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Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#61

Post by [deleted] »

ceejayoz wrote: post #51
miketery wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it was so successful that people would line up around the block for bananas the one time a year. Or when boots came into the store you'd pick up whatever size you could, as you'd trade later. (true stories)

Again: > The USSR has tried this. Lets not. would rule out things like "going to the moon" or "building roads". It's a pretty useless rubric. I am not doubting the USSR fucked all sorts of things up. I'm doubting that that inherently means those things must be impossible.

[deleted]

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#62

Post by kennywinker »

miketery wrote: post #28
flats wrote: post #12

I was very skeptical of these plans at first—as a New Yorker, I don’t exactly have a lot of trust in our city’s government to run things well. But I’ve come around. Let’s try something new! Let’s show people that local governments in the United States really are capable of making a difference in their daily lives. If it fails, well, we tried & we’ll keep trying.

Just because we can does not mean we should. Here's how this will pan out. - A number of "officials" (friends) will get cushy jobs for running this program. - It will lose millions of tax dollars - a small portion of the population will get cheaper produce for a photo op - Mamdani and friends will call it a success - But net, this will be net negative for the city (ie. tax dollars to crony jobs and subsidizing food f…

Por que no los dos?

The kei truck thing might be a good idea, but so is groceries managed as a public service.

The USSR had a problem with corruption. Ok? There have been gov run groceries outside the USSR, and in recent times - not decades ago.

If you don’t have an example of this leading to corruption more recent than the USSR, i gotta assume it was a USSR problem, not a gov grocery problem.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#63

Post by ceejayoz »

b112 wrote: post #60
gruez wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your article doesn't say anything about cost, only that it got built fast. Every time the toilet example gets cited, the punchline is the cost, not how long it took, although that was appalling as well. From the wikipedia article: >The toilet's original proposed cost of $1.7 million inspired media coverage and criticism of the San Francisco government.

Plus, the cost of building includes a lot of permits, inspections, studies, and money to sldo so. Taxes too. Was all this waived?

I'm a firm believer that part of progressivism needs to be reining in these sorts of NIMBY obstacles.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#64

Post by cindyllm »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #32
halflife wrote: post #3

This sounds extremely non economically viable. The municipality which has monopoly on land taxes and costs will compete with stores that must pay taxes and rent? Won’t it just cause neighboring stores to close? Won’t a better option be subsidizing taxes for grocery stores, and let the discounts competitively pass unto the customers?

Oh no! Struggling Americans will be able to buy food cheaper! What will we do? Also, if anyone has any reservations about a government run grocery store, go ask your representatives to come out against military commissaries. I bet you will not be able to find one active politician who will try to remove that. You know why? Because government run grocery stores work. End of story. Period. There is no discussion. You a…

[dead]

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#65

Post by energy123 »

legobmw99 wrote: post #57
energy123 wrote: post #37

Dumb populist idea, grocery stores make 2% margins, best case scenario you're saving people 2%, realistic scenario you introduce operational inefficiencies that the chains already optimized out and waste taxpayer resources. If you don't like grocery stores gamifying or selling junk, regulate those aspects. Or put the taxpayer money towards something useful like building public housing.

You’re not putting a municipal grocery store on the same block as an existing big box and saying “wow, savings!” Food deserts exist in NYC, and many New Yorkers buy staples at corner stores that charge significantly more than a standard grocery store. Your second paragraph implies that this policy is due to some dislike of existing grocery stores, but that assumes these communities are actually being currently served…

Those corner stores exist in a perfectly competitive market, they have low turnover so they have to charger higher prices to pay staff wages and rent. There are no abnormal profits. Why would you set up a government run store with more operational inefficiencies and less ability to respond to the local knowledge problem, than like give money or food stamps to people in these areas, or use the money in some other way?

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#66

Post by asdff »

gruez wrote: post #14
asdff wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Major grocers are more inclined to form cartels on price than to engage in organic competitive action. These businesses are too large and incentives too perverse for free market dynamics to apply anymore.

>Major grocers are more inclined to form cartels on price than to engage in organic competitive action. Even if we take at face value that this is happening, their margins are famously low (ie. low single digits[1][2]) that any improvements are likely negligible. In the best case scenario where they're run as competently/efficiently as a normal grocery store, but don't take any profits, you'd be saving like 50 cents…

Margins being low is fine when you've scaled across a nation. Annual gross profit for Kroger is $34b.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#67

Post by ceejayoz »

woah wrote: post #23
asdff wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Major grocers are more inclined to form cartels on price than to engage in organic competitive action. These businesses are too large and incentives too perverse for free market dynamics to apply anymore.

Oh, that must be why the grocery business is wildly profitable

Low margins, high volumes.

Walmart has low margins. Walmart is also wildly profitable.

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#68

Post by woodruffw »

oa335 wrote: post #54

This is Mamdani’s worst idea. Margins on most essential goods in grocery stores is incredibly low, sometimes it’s a loss leader. Does anyone know of any solid economic rationale for this move?

The underlying theory is to put these stores in areas that otherwise lack grocery store access, meaning they won’t compete with existing stores for small margins. Running at a (moderate) loss would also be politically acceptable; the city runs a lot of things at a loss for civic purposes and fills the gaps with taxes.

(This is the theory, the practice will be challenged by NYC’s ability to acquire land in neighborhoods that are underserved by groceries and develop a supply chain for these stores. This will be harder, but I personally don’t vote for mayors to only have easy problems to solve.)

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#69

Post by kennywinker »

bastawhiz wrote: post #47
miketery wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because we can does not mean we should. Here's how this will pan out. - A number of "officials" (friends) will get cushy jobs for running this program. - It will lose millions of tax dollars - a small portion of the population will get cheaper produce for a photo op - Mamdani and friends will call it a success - But net, this will be net negative for the city (ie. tax dollars to crony jobs and subsidizing food f…

> The USSR has tried this. Lets not. The USSR fell before I spoke my first words. The world is a very different place, and the United States works very differently from the USSR. At worst, some people will get some cheaper groceries out of this. If you want to get mad about government spending, maybe we shouldn't be building a ballroom attached to the White House.

*bunker.

Sounds like it’s a bunker of some kind, and the ballroom was just a cover story

(https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...)

Re: NYC to open municipal grocery store in 2027

#70

Post by WalterBright »

ceejayoz wrote: post #59
WalterBright wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Store closings are nearly always the result of them not being profitable.

Sure. Lots of things governments need to do are unprofitable, like delivering the mail or repairing the roads. I can go to my local public library, borrow the free books, use the free computers, sit in the free chairs, ask the librarian for free guidance, enjoy the free air conditioning, and even book a free meeting room to meet up with some friends to work on a project. Profitable? Fuck no. Great to have in my city?…

Privately run grocery stores have been profitable for 250 years in the US. What has changed recently?

Could it be the decriminalization of shoplifting? Or maybe excessive taxes? Or mandates on wages? Vandalism?

I forgot to add homeless camping around them, which discourages shoppers.

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