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The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

techtrenches.dev

61–70 of 78 posts

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#61

Can definitely attest to this. The frequency of outages at my company have increased drastically the past year, especially ever since incorporating agentic development. I’m seeing all of the dev best practices go out the window. We have a few vibe coders that are posting 15-30 PR’s per day. It’s way too much for us to review. We’re not a big shop. I think we’re going to have to hire more people just to review code ac…

I wonder if the PR workflow is just unsustainable in the agentic era. Rather than review every new feature or bug fix, we would depend on good test coverage, and hold developers accountable for what they ship. The result might be more faulty code getting merged, but if you already have outages and can't review every PR, is there currently a meaningful benefit to the PR workflow?

This reminds me a bit of monoliths vs microservices. People would see microservices as the next new shiny thing and bring it with them to their next job, or read a great blog post that sounds great in theory, but falls apart in practice. People would see it as as purely architectural decision. But the reality was that you had to have the organizational structure to support that development model or you'd find out that it just doesn't scale the way you expect and introduces its own sets of problems. My experience is that most teams that didn't have large orgs got bogged down by the weight of microservices (or things called "microservices"). It required a lot of tooling and orchestration to manage. But there was this promise that you could easily just rewrite that microservice from scratch or change languages and nobody would notice or care.

LLM-generated code feels the same. Reviewing LLM-generated code when it's in the context of a monolith is more taxing than reviewing it in the context of the microservice; the blast radius is larger and the risk is greater, as you can make decisions around how important that service actually is for system-wide stability with microservices. You can effectively not care for some services, and can go back and iterate or rewrite it several times over. But more importantly, the organizational structures that are needed to support microservice like architectures effectively also feel like the organizational structures that are needed to support LLM-generated codebases effectively; more silo-ing, more ownership, more contract and spec-based communication between teams, etc. Teams might become one person and an agent in that org structure. But communication and responsibilities feel like they're require something similar to what is needed to support microservices...just that services are probably closer in size to what many companies end up building when they try to build microservices.

And then there are majestic monoliths, very well curated monoliths that feel like a monorepo of services with clear design and architecture. If they've been well managed, these are also likely to work well for agents, but still suffer the same cognitive overhead when reviewing their work because organizationally people working on or reviewing code for these projects are often still responsible for more than just a narrow slice, with a lot of overlap with other devs, requiring more eyes and buy-in for each change as a result.

The organizational structures that we have in place for today might be forced to adapt over time, to silo in ways that ownership and responsibility narrow to fit within what we can juggle mentally. Or they'll be forced to slow down an accept the limitations of the organizational structure. Personal projects have been the area that people have had a lot of success with for LLMs, which feels closer to smaller siloed teams. Open-source collaboration with LLM PRs feels like it falls apart for the same cognitive overhead reasons as existing team structures that adopt AI.

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#62
You can write your own linters for every dumb AI mistake, add them as pre-commit checks, and never see that mistake in committed code ever again.. it’s really empowering.

You don’t even have to code the linters yourself. The agent can write a python script that walks the AST of the code, or uses regex, or tries to run it or compile it. Non zero exit code and a line number and the agent will fix the problem then and rerun the linter and loop until it passes.

Lint your architecture - block any commit which directly imports the database from a route handler. Whatever the coding agent thinks - ask it for recommendations for an approach!

Get out of the business of low level code review. That stuff is automatable and codifiable and it’s not where you are best poised to add value, dear human.

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hey Claude, did Claude do a good job?"

I did an experiment today, where I had a new Claude agent review the work of a former Claude agent - both Opus 4.6 - on a large refactor on a 16k LOC project. I had it address all issues it found, then I cleared context, and repeated. Rinse and repeat. It took 4 iterations before it approached nitpicking. The fact that each agent found new, legitimate problems that the last one had missed was concerning to me. Why ca…

You're expecting it to be a person. It's not.

It is more like a wiggly search engine. You give it a (wiggly) query and a (wiggly) corpus, and it returns a (wiggly) output.

If you are looking for a wiggly sort of thing 'MAKE Y WITH NO BUGS' or 'THE BUGS IN Y', it can be kinda useful. But thinking of it as a person because it vaguely communicates like a person will get you into problems because it's not.

You can try to paper over it with some agent harness or whatever, but you are really making a slightly more complex wiggly query that handles some of the deficiency space of the more basic wiggly query: "MAKE Y WITH NO ISSUES -> FIND ISSUES -> FIX ISSUE Z IN Y -> ...".

OK well what is an issue? _You_ are a person (presumably) and can judge whether something is a bug or a nitpick or _something you care about_ or not. Ultimately, this is the grounding that the LLM lacks and you do not. You have an idea about what you care about. What you care about has to be part of the wiggly query, or the wiggly search engine will not return the wiggly output you are looking for.

You cannot phrase a wiggly query referencing unavailable information (well, you can, but it's pointless). The following query is not possible to phrase in a way an LLM can satisfy (and this is the exact answer to your question):

- "Make what I want."

What you want is too complicated, and too hard, and too unknown. Getting what you are looking for reduces to: query for an approximation of what I want, repeating until I decide it no longer surfaces what I want. This depends on an accurate conception of what you want, so only you can do it.

If you remove yourself from the critical path, the output will not be what you want. Expressing what you want precisely enough to ground a wiggly search would just be something like code, and obviates the need for wiggly searching in the first place.

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#64
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proposed industry solution is to use agents to review PRs, as not to slow down the velocity of delivery... My current workplace is going through a major "realignment" exercise to replace as many testers with agents as humanely possible, which proved to be a challenge when the existing process is not well documented.

So you essentially trust the output of the model from beginning to end? Curious to know what type of application you're building where you can safely do that. Edit: to clarify, I know these models have gotten significantly better. The output is pretty incredible sometimes, but trusting it end to end like that just seems super risky still.

I guarantee you it's nothing quantifiable.

LLMs can't be responsible for deciding what code you use because they have no skin in the game. They don't even have skin.

If you type fast, well then it takes just as long to code it yourself as review it. Plus you actually get flow time when you're coding.

For heaven's sake people have the robot write your unit tests and dashboards, not your production code. Otherwise delete yourself.

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the PR workflow is just unsustainable in the agentic era. Rather than review every new feature or bug fix, we would depend on good test coverage, and hold developers accountable for what they ship. The result might be more faulty code getting merged, but if you already have outages and can't review every PR, is there currently a meaningful benefit to the PR workflow?

Diogenes carrying a lamp, looking for good test coverage

Copy-pasting screenshots of red lines.

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#66

Can definitely attest to this. The frequency of outages at my company have increased drastically the past year, especially ever since incorporating agentic development. I’m seeing all of the dev best practices go out the window. We have a few vibe coders that are posting 15-30 PR’s per day. It’s way too much for us to review. We’re not a big shop. I think we’re going to have to hire more people just to review code ac…

I wonder if the PR workflow is just unsustainable in the agentic era. Rather than review every new feature or bug fix, we would depend on good test coverage, and hold developers accountable for what they ship. The result might be more faulty code getting merged, but if you already have outages and can't review every PR, is there currently a meaningful benefit to the PR workflow?

> I wonder if the PR workflow is just unsustainable in the agentic era. Rather than review every new feature or bug fix, we would depend on good test coverage, and hold developers accountable for what they ship.

I think what you're describing is setting up the human as the fall guy for the machine.

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like people need to speak up to management

Management likes how fast features are getting deployed so they essentially told us to just deal with it.

I mean speak up to management in a way where they know it's stupid and they're stupid for pushing it

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like people need to speak up to management

Management doesn’t care. This sort of thing is becoming more common at my workplace too. More outages, more embarrassing bugs, even bugs that leak customer data. The solution is always more AI, and if you’re still shipping bugs and causing outages, it’s because you did’t use the AI correctly. Leadership makes all the right noises about quality and ownership, but when it comes down to it, the incentive structures clea…

Sounds like a fast track to sinking their company into the ground

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The literal meaning was removing 1/10

> Removing 1/10 feels euphemistic for the original “colloquial” usage I have for it. > The killing of one in ten, chosen by lots, from a rebellious city or a mutinous army was a punishment sometimes used by the Romans. The word has been used (loosely and unetymologically, to the irritation of pedants) since 1660s for "destroy a large but indefinite number of." [0] [0] https://www.etymonline.com/word/decimate

Yup. What amuses me is that people think that decimate is to massively degrade something. I assume they're thinking "reduce to 1/10th" rather than "reduce to 9/10th". The effect is markedly different

Re: The human cost of 10x: How AI is physically breaking senior engineers

#70
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did an experiment today, where I had a new Claude agent review the work of a former Claude agent - both Opus 4.6 - on a large refactor on a 16k LOC project. I had it address all issues it found, then I cleared context, and repeated. Rinse and repeat. It took 4 iterations before it approached nitpicking. The fact that each agent found new, legitimate problems that the last one had missed was concerning to me. Why ca…

You're expecting it to be a person. It's not. It is more like a wiggly search engine. You give it a (wiggly) query and a (wiggly) corpus, and it returns a (wiggly) output. If you are looking for a wiggly sort of thing 'MAKE Y WITH NO BUGS' or 'THE BUGS IN Y', it can be kinda useful. But thinking of it as a person because it vaguely communicates like a person will get you into problems because it's not. You can try to…

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