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Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

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Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#61

Post by p_ing »

geophile wrote: post #33

From perusing reddit, I see some Windows users tempted to consider Linux, often because of Windows 11. But then, many of them won't move because: it doesn't work just like Windows; there is some Windows application they must have, or maybe they just don't want to learn the alternatives. Or they use word/excel/powerpoint and have to interact with others who do also. The brainwashing, high tolerance for pain and misery…

> The brainwashing, high tolerance for pain and misery (and expense!), and lock-in makes it close to impossible for ordinary computer users to escape.

Or opposite of the house, the arrogance and presumption.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#62

Post by cromka »

kn100 wrote: post #20

I got caught out by exactly this, and I'm not exactly tech illiterate. what made it even more annoying is by the time I'd realised what had happened, it was practically impossible to get the files back out of OneDrive (since I decided that this was enough Windows for me, and went back to Linux), since the webui does NOT handle downloading lots of small files well, and you just end up getting a partially complete zip…

I had same exact experience with macOS and iCloud. macOS by default enables offloading Documents to cloud, transparently. Problem is if you try to get those files back to store them offline, it gets very tricky very quickly with ambiguous verbiage and lengthy process that you never actually know status of. I ended up losing some files as a result, which came as a total shock to me. I was already in the process of moving back to Linux (hence downloading of the Documents) and this was final straw.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#63

Post by Forgeties79 »

selectively wrote: post #6
Forgeties79 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>uninstall it Go tell all our parents to navigate that process. Microsoft is very insistent on their using onedrive.

Open the screen where you remove apps and click the uninstall button.

You’d be terrible at IT support lol but jokes aside, the other part of the issue is by the time “the average user” would determine they don’t want it their data is so intertwined with it they struggle to figure out what is “on the cloud” and what is “local,” as well as what is at risk of being lost.

[Older family member] has gdrive AND onedrive running, she has no clue which is which and is terrified of removing either for fear of losing years of stuff. I have tried to break it down for her but she doesn’t know all her passwords, doesn’t know what is a duplicate, etc.

For me to fix this it would take days easily. Because for years onedrive was humming along and demanding more money to store more. I take a few cracks at it every year and make it better, but we’re so far from solved because it’s just so damn messy by design. And because I don’t know what matters and doesn’t, what is on which service, what she has backed up on random HDD’s, I can’t just start purging things. All of that is complicated enough without onedrive mucking it up further and constantly trying to scare her into buying more space. Transferring to a new computer is always a whole thing.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#64

Post by _wire_ »

Anytime any device in any context greets you with "Hello" or "Welcome", it is announcing that it doesn't belong to you, and that you must be vigilant to its exploitation of you.

Windows is remarkable in that it is constantly editing itself, revising terms of service without notice, nudging, cajoling, and end-running you and at every turn.

Update cannot be stopped, yet updater messages make it seem like you are initiating work and responsible for its successful completion:

"You're 90% there...",

"Don't turn off your PC",

"Something didn't go as planned, don't worry your data is safe",

which is eternally followed by "Welcome" lets arrange a few things...

Apple's dark patterns are far lower key as they supply the total stack, it's feels more custodial.

Linux if it says anything-- which it usually doesn't say much-- will say these changes are well-known to wreck things but you're at our mercy, them your system is put into some polluted state associated with a bygone era and all your config and data is your problem hope you're skilled at IT.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#65

Post by inetknght »

scorpionfeet wrote: post #58
reddalo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux Mint is super easy to use. I've personally battle tested it with my elder parents. Given all the nagware present in Windows 11, I'd even say Linux Mint is easier than Windows. The most difficult part is probably the installation itself.

Not if you are coming from windows and are not a tech nerd. I don’t want to end up being tech support for some non techie I coerced into Linux. It is nowhere near as seamless as zealots like to believe. Been having this discussion since 1997.

> It is nowhere near as seamless as zealots like to believe.

Perhaps not. But it's still more seamless than Windows these days. Microsoft keeps lowering the bar.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#66

Post by doubled112 »

kn100 wrote: post #20

I got caught out by exactly this, and I'm not exactly tech illiterate. what made it even more annoying is by the time I'd realised what had happened, it was practically impossible to get the files back out of OneDrive (since I decided that this was enough Windows for me, and went back to Linux), since the webui does NOT handle downloading lots of small files well, and you just end up getting a partially complete zip…

I wonder if rclone would have behaved any better than the web UI.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#68

Post by pixl97 »

fhn wrote: post #42
asdefghyk wrote: post #19

I'm surprised their has not been a class action here, about how ( unskilled , mainly ) people are tricked? / Forced ? into using cloud storage.

I'm all for suing MS but you're suggesting suing because of personal ignorance? The forced use of email for setup is probably sue worthy but I'd rather people just stop using MS.

>but you're suggesting suing because of personal ignorance

Yes, because companies design products with dark patterns to ensnare users, it's not uncommon for people to win these kind of lawsuit.

> I'd rather people just stop using MS.

Ah yes, just like we're all going to stop using Apple and Google too. How about we have organizations that have teeth and protect the consumer

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#69

Post by selectively »

ijk wrote: post #49
Forgeties79 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>uninstall it Go tell all our parents to navigate that process. Microsoft is very insistent on their using onedrive.

Show me how to uninstall it, because I've tried and failed.

Open Control Panel. OneDrive is in it. Click the 'Uninstall' button. Then click yes.

Re: Microsoft is employing dark patterns to goad users into paying for storage?

#70

Post by Forgeties79 »

selectively wrote: post #11
asdefghyk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RE "...Cloud Storage not enabled by Default ..." The issue is that Microsoft is moving users files to its cloud with out explaining to people CLEARLY what is happening. And getting their customers agreement. And this deception, in MY OPINION is obviously by design , meant to grow their cloud storage revenue thru upgrade offers If Microsoft was doing it properly, it would be CLEARLY explained to customer what was to h…

OneDrive seems pretty clear to me. It works identically to the way the same functionality works under macOS.

MacOS has nothing like onedrive’s experience. iCloud is a way cleaner and clearer experience. It doesn’t even compare.
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