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John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement

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Re: John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is saying you can't relate your experience with this equipment. What we're saying is consumer action is enough to solve this problem. It just takes some time. There's a certain type of customer that wants the dealer to handle parts and repair. But those guys aren't the lawn mower segment.

> What we're saying is consumer action is enough to solve this problem. Citation needed

Might be hard for them to do that given this lawsuit is hard proof that it isn't true.

Re: John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement

#62

One of the most user-hostile companies on earth. My John Deere lawnmower came with a fuel gauge that runs off a CR2032 that's embedded in epoxy. The battery runs out of charge in about six months and the gauge stops working. If you saw the gauge open and replace the battery it doesn't start working again. If you disconnect the gauge the lawnmower won't start. Replacement gauges are $60.

This is where small claims court can have a HUGE impact.

Where I live, in small claims:

* Lawyers are not allowed

* There is no forced discovery. Sue John Deere, and they cannot ask for endless documents

* There is no way to assign costs on loss. If you lose, you never pay costs for the person you sued (which makes sense -- no lawyers)

* If you don't understand something, typically the judge will act as a mediator and explain it to you.

Yet meanwhile, suing in small claims will typically result in a big company using lawyers, who will try to pretend the above is not true. They will also rack up large costs for the company. In the end, sometimes a lawyer will appear in small claims court beside a company employee. However the company employee will do the talking.

My cost to file is $100. My cost to serve (via courier with tracking + sig) was $10. The company I went after, a fortune 500 company, I suspect spent >$50k on lawyers. While small to the company, it is truly a way to level the playing field.

What I find amusing here is, you could sue for a replacement unit. Explain what you found. Where I am, the max resolution is $30k, so you could easily get a refund for the tractor. Citing this issue while describing all of this, could result in two outcomes.

1) Deere employee claims (in their defense) that a batch of units were defective. They then deliver a fixed unit to you. While not perfect, it would be amusing, because they'll have just spent $50k in paying lawyers, along with making a proper unit.

2) You just claim that the tractor is defective, you can't sell it as it is, except maybe for parts. And you're not sure most of them are usable (weird electronics), and even cite that Deere stuff apparently is designed to break without authorized repairs. So how can you in good faith, even try to sell it to anyone??

So you ask for your time, costs, and full replacement costs with another brand.

Adding your wage/hr is somewhat typical here, for calls, research, sawing it open, all of it.

--

Anyhow.

If #1 is chosen and it breaks again, then you can repeat the whole fun process.

And I do mean it is fun.

$100 + I filled out a 2 page form, and then fedexed it to them. Their lawyers kept pestering me, to which I simply said "No" and "I don't need to give you anything, there's no forced discovery". This too was very satisfying, when I kept in mind how each call to me cost the company probably about $1k.

I mean, literally I'm sure each 5 minute call was around that ballpark. It was sheer joy. (Just don't discuss any aspect of the case in these calls.)

Then there was a pre-trail meeting where I, the company rep, and a retired judge sat. I was told that "nothing said here can ever be used in court", which made it more fun. The system's attempt to resolve before trial. That too was fun, for I got to finally tell the company, over and over, how wrong they were.

Anyhow.

It's a fun process.

Re: John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes there should be. But there won’t be until US stops lobbying and American public elects lawmakers that work for people instead of their own pockets.

Unfortunately most people has a price in this world. Those who can’t be bought are just so rare.

And people that are likely to not be bought wouldn't enter politics in most cases. To enter and succeed in politics needs ambition and skillset that is diametrically opposite to a honest person.

Re: John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement

#64
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They settled, and paid pennies for being able to continue the status quo. Given that the headline is journalistic malpractice at best; and you asking this question kinda proves that. > While the agricultural manufacturing giant pointed out in a statement that this is no admission of wrongdoing Welp, gotta sue again in the future, hopefully lobbied laws in place to prevent whatever forced them to settle by then!

The whole point of settling is to end legal action. Admitting wrongdoing will be used as evidence against them by others who weren't party to the original suit. Any future suits will have far higher settlement costs, if plaintiffs are even willing to settle, since there's an admission of guilt right there. You can thank the plaintiffs and their lawyers for accepting the settlement instead of pursuing a judicial remed…

It is going to be tough to get me to think the plaintiff is responsible for John Deere the company continuing to be dickheads.

When I hear these kinds of "blame the consumer" apologetics it never resonates with me - I'm just not going to get on board with some hypothetical natural state where corporations are inherently bad like some sort of sick animal and it's on consumers to sacrifice and plan with care in order to help the rest of society deal with them.

Corporations are just big groups of people. If their victims can choose self sacrifice in order to help the group then the corporation people could just as easily do the same and that feels far more just to me.

Re: John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is saying you can't relate your experience with this equipment. What we're saying is consumer action is enough to solve this problem. It just takes some time. There's a certain type of customer that wants the dealer to handle parts and repair. But those guys aren't the lawn mower segment.

> What we're saying is consumer action is enough to solve this problem. Citation needed

Is it? You've never been to a grocery store?

Re: John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement

#67
I live in a wine region in central Calif where everyone has a tractor. We bought a Kubota, enjoy using it and get a lot of work done with it. We have a neighbor that bought a new John Deere and for about a 3 month period we endured nothing but abuse from him because we didn't buy "American". Then his problems started...

Re: John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement

#69
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Don’t comment if you don’t want to actually contribute. How are people supposed to know these things before buying the equipment. What if they’re the only provider in their region? There’s a billion reasons why your comment doesn’t contribute.

Well.. farming equipment are high 6 figures 7 pieces of business equipment (the lifetime operating costs are definitely in the 7 figures.) These are owned and operated by people who I would expect to do this type of research and critical thinking. These aren't normie consumers buying everyday appliances or electronics.

However.. farmers are a weird bunch and they are blinded by brand loyalty or will only buy from an "American" company which ironically allowed JD to stomp all over them because of their dominant market position.

Re: John Deere to pay $99M in right-to-repair settlement

#70
post #62

One of the most user-hostile companies on earth. My John Deere lawnmower came with a fuel gauge that runs off a CR2032 that's embedded in epoxy. The battery runs out of charge in about six months and the gauge stops working. If you saw the gauge open and replace the battery it doesn't start working again. If you disconnect the gauge the lawnmower won't start. Replacement gauges are $60.

This is where small claims court can have a HUGE impact. Where I live, in small claims: * Lawyers are not allowed * There is no forced discovery. Sue John Deere, and they cannot ask for endless documents * There is no way to assign costs on loss. If you lose, you never pay costs for the person you sued (which makes sense -- no lawyers) * If you don't understand something, typically the judge will act as a mediator an…

>Then there was a pre-trail meeting where I, the company rep, and a retired judge sat.

This is them trying to intimidate you right? Or settle pre-court at least? Not part of the actual process where some retired judge always mediates before trial? It reads as gross.

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