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France pulls last gold held in US

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Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#61

Post by tonfa »

wqaatwt wrote: post #13
berkes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BdF Governor Francois Villeroy de Galhau said the decision to keep the new bars in Paris is “not politically motivated,” as the higher-standard gold bars it bought were traded on a European market.

Well they are probably just being diplomatic, there is no point in accidentally triggering the ape.

To be fair, it's an ongoing process started in 2005 and which should finish in 2028. I doubt there was much political (tho the whole tariffs stuff probably made their job/decision easier when the gold price started diverging between NY and European markets). At this point it was cheaper than flying the gold to CH for recasting.

(1784 tons moved to standardized holding over the years, 134 tons are now left to convert -- all stored in Paris)

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#62

Post by mort96 »

coldtea wrote: post #45
cladopa wrote: post #25

This is not gain at all. At least in theory: You own some tons of gold at the start of the process, you have the same tons of gold at the end of the process. The only real gain is that you have gold in the US custody and the US can be tempted to just use it without telling you anything. In other words, you had "paper gold" or "virtual gold" that the US can confiscate anytime, for example after invading Greenland, bla…

As @somenameforme wrote: [] they sold their 'non-standard' (seems to be bars below the modern purity standards) US reserves, and replaced them with new reserves purchased elsewhere which are now stored in France. As the price of gold continued to rise as they did this, they ended up making a bunch of dinero while also centralizing their reserves. sounds like a gain to me.

A gain of $15b? That's roughly the value of 100 metric tons of gold, remarkably close to the 129 tons that the article says was moved... did they double the value of their gold?

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#63

Post by zelphirkalt »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #52

Germany also needs to pull all gold. We have 1236t there.

Would be good to not depend on the US that much any longer, since they have proven to be such an unreliable "partner". Even in a non-Trump future one cannot rely upon some future election not resulting in some similar disaster. Better to pull out, before some hothead gets weird ideas about that gold.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#64

Post by huhtenberg »

mort96 wrote: post #56
codethief wrote: post #51

Is anyone here actually reading the article? Yes, they really made a gain of $15B: > But instead of refining and transporting the gold, it opted to sell the bars and purchase new bullion in Europe. […] Due to rising gold prices, the move helped the bank to generate a capital gain of 13 billion euros ($15 billion),

This doesn't make sense. If they first sold the bars held in the US, then the gold prices rose, then they bought gold in Europe, how the hell did that amount to a capital gain of $15b? How exactly do prices rising over the course of the process lead to these $15b?

Gold is down 10+% since its recent peak. They likely sold then and repurchased later.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#65

Post by mort96 »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #3

Not done for political reasons.

Would it count as a "political reason" if their risk management calculations crossed a threshold where it's worth it to move the gold back? I imagine such calculations are done and revised all the time and account for the perceived stability and reliability of a country.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#66

Post by michaelt »

cladopa wrote: post #25

This is not gain at all. At least in theory: You own some tons of gold at the start of the process, you have the same tons of gold at the end of the process. The only real gain is that you have gold in the US custody and the US can be tempted to just use it without telling you anything. In other words, you had "paper gold" or "virtual gold" that the US can confiscate anytime, for example after invading Greenland, bla…

Assets like this are one of the complexities in calculating national import and export figures.

For example, imagine there's some German-owned gold in a UK bank vault, the owners sell it to a UK broker who sells it to a Chinese investor? The physical bars don't move, but on paper it's been imported to the UK then exported.

But a lot of people looking at export figures are expecting to learn things about the manufacturing industry, and picturing exports as washing machines, cars and computer chips - which imply lots of well paid jobs for skilled labour. So the UK reports import/export figures with 'non-monetary gold' listed separately.

(The fact flows of gold are highly volatile allows a classic bit of political sleight-of-hand - if you include gold, UK exports are both up and down since Brexit, depending on the pair of dates you choose)

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#67

Post by samus »

mort96 wrote: post #56
codethief wrote: post #51

Is anyone here actually reading the article? Yes, they really made a gain of $15B: > But instead of refining and transporting the gold, it opted to sell the bars and purchase new bullion in Europe. […] Due to rising gold prices, the move helped the bank to generate a capital gain of 13 billion euros ($15 billion),

This doesn't make sense. If they first sold the bars held in the US, then the gold prices rose, then they bought gold in Europe, how the hell did that amount to a capital gain of $15b? How exactly do prices rising over the course of the process lead to these $15b?

Dumpling $15B on the market should lead to a drop. Anyway, the gold price is not always going up.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#68

Post by mort96 »

huhtenberg wrote: post #64
mort96 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make sense. If they first sold the bars held in the US, then the gold prices rose, then they bought gold in Europe, how the hell did that amount to a capital gain of $15b? How exactly do prices rising over the course of the process lead to these $15b?

Gold is down 10+% since its recent peak. They likely sold then and repurchased later.

Then they made money thanks to gold prices fluctuating, not thanks to gold prices rising?

And how does a 10% market shift lead to gaining $15b, roughly the value of 100 tons of gold, from the sale and re-purchase of 129 tons of gold?

This math ain't mathing.

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#69

Post by lljk_kennedy »

adastra22 wrote: post #58
codethief wrote: post #51

Is anyone here actually reading the article? Yes, they really made a gain of $15B: > But instead of refining and transporting the gold, it opted to sell the bars and purchase new bullion in Europe. […] Due to rising gold prices, the move helped the bank to generate a capital gain of 13 billion euros ($15 billion),

Did they buy before selling? Otherwise that doesn’t make sense.

Sell at high, buy at low?

Re: France pulls last gold held in US

#70

Post by vasco »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #63
KingOfCoders wrote: post #52

Germany also needs to pull all gold. We have 1236t there.

Would be good to not depend on the US that much any longer, since they have proven to be such an unreliable "partner". Even in a non-Trump future one cannot rely upon some future election not resulting in some similar disaster. Better to pull out, before some hothead gets weird ideas about that gold.

Maybe the fact that US soldiers and military bases exist inside Germany's borders is slightly more important than where the gold is. First regain your sovereignty, I'd say.
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