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Fake Fans

wordsfromeliza.com

61–65 of 65 posts

Re: Fake Fans

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am under the impression that for most of human history, the ability and willingness to inflict violence was what determined the social hierarchy. As most things people today believe, this is not really true, at least not in such universal way as usually implied. > Would that not be the reason that almost all tribes were patriarchal? There is no data to assert that.

>As most things people today believe, this is not really true, at least not in such universal way as usually implied. Might makes right is a rule of nature, is it not? Native Americans didn't choose to be moved onto reservations, enslaved people didn't choose to be enslaved, and colonized cultures did not choose to be colonized. And the ones making those choices always had the upper hand. >There is no data to assert…

> Might makes right is a rule of nature, is it not?

Of nature, maybe. Of human social arrangements, not really - otherwise elites would never feel the need of justifying themselves, yet they always do.

> Native Americans didn't choose to be moved onto reservations, enslaved people didn't choose to be enslaved, and colonized cultures did not choose to be colonized. And the ones making those choices always had the upper hand.

You went from social hierarchy to interaction between societies and cultures. Slaves were almost always sourced from outside the group, and by nature of slavery they were not part of social.

> But you put the facts together that it was nearly ubiquitous around the world

This is exactly the data we don't have. We simply don't know social arrangements of most tribes or cultures in human history.

Moreover, there is a huge gap between assertion that most societies in history had male leaders and rulers, and assertion that lack of merit always led to being left behind.

> what other conclusion can be had?

Using your spectacular reasoning one can similarly argue that it has to be necessary that males in all cultures live in polygamous relationships, because nature made sperm cheap, and optimal breeding strategy is to breed with as many females as possible.

And yet, for some reason, monogamy exists in patriarchal societies.

Who could have thought?!

Re: Fake Fans

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pieces like this all seem to be written with an unspoken assumption that anyone who wants to make a living wage from being an artist should be able to, as if it's some sort of right. Comments like yours seem to be written with the unspoken assumption that everyone's life should be hard unless they can please the market, which technology makes increasingly difficult. It's deeply anti-human. > AI has exacerbated this…

No, life is hard on its own unless you can please the market. Why is it anti-human to suggest that an underwater basket weaver should not make the same amount of money as a neurosurgeon?

> No, life is hard on its own unless you can please the market

It is funny when such claims are put with an aura of harsh, but brilliant insight, yet they are nothing more than expression of ideology.

Re: Fake Fans

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As most things people today believe, this is not really true, at least not in such universal way as usually implied. Might makes right is a rule of nature, is it not? Native Americans didn't choose to be moved onto reservations, enslaved people didn't choose to be enslaved, and colonized cultures did not choose to be colonized. And the ones making those choices always had the upper hand. >There is no data to assert…

> Might makes right is a rule of nature, is it not? Of nature, maybe. Of human social arrangements, not really - otherwise elites would never feel the need of justifying themselves, yet they always do. > Native Americans didn't choose to be moved onto reservations, enslaved people didn't choose to be enslaved, and colonized cultures did not choose to be colonized. And the ones making those choices always had the uppe…

>You went from social hierarchy to interaction between societies and cultures. Slaves were almost always sourced from outside the group, and by nature of slavery they were not part of social.

I thought "social Darwinism" might have also implied survival of the fittest on the society level. From the first paragraph of the wikipedia link above:

>Social Darwinism is a body of pseudoscientific theories and societal practices that claim to apply biological concepts of natural selection and survival of the fittest to sociology, economics and politics.[1][2] Social Darwinists believe that the strong should see their wealth and power increase, while the weak should see their wealth and power decrease.

>This is exactly the data we don't have. We simply don't know social arrangements of most tribes or cultures in human history. Moreover, there is a huge gap between assertion that most societies in history had male leaders and rulers, and assertion that lack of merit always led to being left behind.

I guess that would be true for all of human history, but I would have thought the data from the recent previous couple thousand years would suffice (from whenever there are written records). Also, to be clear, in this case, I would assume "merit" means might, right?

>Using your spectacular reasoning one can similarly argue that it has to be necessary that males in all cultures live in polygamous relationships, because nature made sperm cheap, and optimal breeding strategy is to breed with as many females as possible. And yet, for some reason, monogamy exists in patriarchal societies.

I am also under the impression that men being expected/able to "cheat" without much consequence was a common thing until recent history where women gained the right to assets in divorce.

Also, the sperm/breeding strategy does not necessarily imply a polygamous future, because humans could have been intelligent enough to understand that the long term benefits of stability from at least the veneer of monogamy far outweighs the benefits of out right polygamy (due to stability achieved by not having significant numbers of single men competing for women).

Going back to your original claim:

>It didn't arise until rise of capitalism and bourgeoise (lack of) morality. For most of human history, and among countless cultures, social Darwinism wasn't the case.

My understanding of "Darwinism" is that there exists a need for animals (all living things) to compete for resources, and hence whomever wins the competition wins the resources and hence can procreate and further the genetic line. So I would think competition between and amongst members of society would be the natural state, because we are living things, and while humans might have understood the folly of physically competing for resources (most of the time), that does not mean humans would not desire to compete for resources in other ways (especially to attract the opposite sex).

Re: Fake Fans

#64
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the hypothetical argument that you could enjoy a simple meal, a simple life, etc. And there are many that do - but that doesn't mean some things aren't preferable to other things to some people. It just shows that people's preferences are different. But generally, we see that given the choice, people do rate art differently. That people prefer certain things to other things more often than chance. Some o…

Sounds like you mostly agree. We're not a monoculture. Mainstream culture is a compromise - consists of things that many people like, but not many people's favorite. It's a little silly to say "mainstream is crap! Why doesn't the better stuff rise to the top?" It's because people don't agree on what's better.

>It's because people don't agree on what's better.

Or maybe, just maybe, it's because taste and discernment (which are personal values) correlate inversely with access to resources (which is a globally recognized value).

>It's a little silly to say "mainstream is crap! Why doesn't the better stuff rise to the top?"

If it's silly to ask that question, maybe it's also a bit silly to answer it - but sure, lemme throw in my own 2c:

It's because the "compromise" you speak of amounts to human society taking on the role of a half-witted hivemind.

IMO a better question to ask is what's the point of there being a "mainstream" at all? It's not like lived human experience is fungible... is it?

Re: Fake Fans

#65
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lately when I watch a video on YouTube, every single one of the recommended videos is AI slop. Not sure what the next 5 years holds. It does make me question the argument that bad AI generated content is equivalent to bad human generated content. And they all have hundreds of thousands of views, another mystery.

A dirty secret is the algorithms can't differentiate real users from fake. The universe of content is so large now, if you don't start with a fake audience you go nowhere. Slop rises to the top, because slopfarms can spend all their money on the farming rather than the content. It's even worse if you look at short form video because it's trivial to clone anything that went viral and alter the message, no real human o…

>A dirty secret is the algorithms can't differentiate real users from fake.

The mainstream platforms exist for the fake users, not for the real ones.

Before they could make "fake users" out of real people (by teaching them to enjoy the taste of mental effluvia); now they've factored out the people (since humans prefer actual nutrients).

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