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The open web isn't dying, we're killing it

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Re: The open web isn't dying, we're killing it

#61

Post by defrost »

bruce511 wrote: post #50
jacquesm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The no monoculture one is the big one for me. And I think 2008 is very generous.

I get the concept of this at a principle level. But how does it play out for you? I mean, to what extent do you succumb to the monoculture because while principles are good, you live in the real world? So, like, what phone OS do you use? There's not much choice but did you choose Android over iOS because it's more open? Or did you go the whole way and use PalmOS or Symbian? Do you pick airlines based on what planes t…

As a legit answer,

I don't have a smart phone or a mobile phone .. and yes, I do stay in touch with a good many people via land lines, email, some encrypted apps, radio and IRL face to face conversation.

I pick aircraft for their stability at near ground level flight, Cresco STOL's for example, and or ability to land on water, have high wings, mostly twin props, etc. Quite fond of Robinson R22 and Cabri G2 helicopters.

Typically elections here have 10 or so parties, three or four major parties, several minor single issue parties, and 10 or so independants in many districts. It's a preferential ranked voting system that allows you to 1, 2, 3 your main interests and tail off there if that's all you care to do.

I still largely use paper maps (despite having processed a great deal of digital GIS data into digital mapping pipelines).

So, yeah - we're happy being off to the side and not part of the great urban monoculture.

Re: The open web isn't dying, we're killing it

#62

Post by jacquesm »

defrost wrote: post #61
bruce511 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the concept of this at a principle level. But how does it play out for you? I mean, to what extent do you succumb to the monoculture because while principles are good, you live in the real world? So, like, what phone OS do you use? There's not much choice but did you choose Android over iOS because it's more open? Or did you go the whole way and use PalmOS or Symbian? Do you pick airlines based on what planes t…

As a legit answer, I don't have a smart phone or a mobile phone .. and yes, I do stay in touch with a good many people via land lines, email, some encrypted apps, radio and IRL face to face conversation. I pick aircraft for their stability at near ground level flight, Cresco STOL's for example, and or ability to land on water, have high wings, mostly twin props, etc. Quite fond of Robinson R22 and Cabri G2 helicopter…

Props to you, you're further along that track than I am. Running a business has been one of main obstacles to cutting more of these ties. But it's getting there.

Re: The open web isn't dying, we're killing it

#63

Post by defrost »

jacquesm wrote: post #62
defrost wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a legit answer, I don't have a smart phone or a mobile phone .. and yes, I do stay in touch with a good many people via land lines, email, some encrypted apps, radio and IRL face to face conversation. I pick aircraft for their stability at near ground level flight, Cresco STOL's for example, and or ability to land on water, have high wings, mostly twin props, etc. Quite fond of Robinson R22 and Cabri G2 helicopter…

Props to you, you're further along that track than I am. Running a business has been one of main obstacles to cutting more of these ties. But it's getting there.

Props to my father, really - he's still kicking along, born in 1935, and fairly adept at living in places that lack any modern urban infrastructure.

Although, TBH, he's fallen prey to the clutches of the iPhone (sans any account stuff and pretty much limited to phone calls, text messages, and logging his daily walks).

I am working with smart phones for other people, they're more and more integrated with tractors, drones, boom sprays, ag equipment .. but many people are mindful of routing data and control through { cloud } which often means the US and are still attached to ways of working that can still work when { stuff breaks }, like internet connections, US clouds.

Fuel and fertilizer is a big issue ATM .. there are a lot of people all wanting to seed seperate 4,000 Ha farm blocks ATM - and that ability to do or not do so will have a rolling impact about the world in a few months.

Re: The open web isn't dying, we're killing it

#64

Post by jacquesm »

defrost wrote: post #63
jacquesm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Props to you, you're further along that track than I am. Running a business has been one of main obstacles to cutting more of these ties. But it's getting there.

Props to my father, really - he's still kicking along, born in 1935, and fairly adept at living in places that lack any modern urban infrastructure. Although, TBH, he's fallen prey to the clutches of the iPhone (sans any account stuff and pretty much limited to phone calls, text messages, and logging his daily walks). I am working with smart phones for other people, they're more and more integrated with tractors, dro…

I've been telling everybody around me to prepare for a massive price increase in various must-haves because I don't see how we're going to avoid that.

Fertilizer and fuel are a massive problem and once reserves run out (and we're not that far from that depending on where you live, in some places we're already there) the problems will multiply very rapidly. Trump is the biggest idiot that ever sat in a seat of power and the whole world (but of course, as always, the poorer parts first) will end up paying the price, and if the harvest is bad quite possibly the ultimate one.

Re: The open web isn't dying, we're killing it

#66

Post by defrost »

jacquesm wrote: post #64
defrost wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Props to my father, really - he's still kicking along, born in 1935, and fairly adept at living in places that lack any modern urban infrastructure. Although, TBH, he's fallen prey to the clutches of the iPhone (sans any account stuff and pretty much limited to phone calls, text messages, and logging his daily walks). I am working with smart phones for other people, they're more and more integrated with tractors, dro…

I've been telling everybody around me to prepare for a massive price increase in various must-haves because I don't see how we're going to avoid that. Fertilizer and fuel are a massive problem and once reserves run out (and we're not that far from that depending on where you live, in some places we're already there) the problems will multiply very rapidly. Trump is the biggest idiot that ever sat in a seat of power a…

Yeah, Trump's a bit of a massive tit alright.

Ehh, worst comes to worst _we_'ll get by - there just won't be much excess for others .. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45623799

( Yes, I realise that'd entail the kind of hard physical long hour labour my father grew up with .. but the means are there and the kids and grandkids are all pretty fit )

Re: The open web isn't dying, we're killing it

#67

Post by nine_k »

blast wrote: post #46
nine_k wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point of playing guitar any more? You're not going to be another Elvis. You're not going to be another Robert Plant or Paco de Lucia, even if you play equally good. The world is choke-full of excellent guitar music recordings. People still play guitar nevertheless. They do it for the enjoyment of the few friends sitting next to them, and, most of all, for the fun they personally have in the process. If yo…

Well said and I agree completely...but did Robert Plant play guitar?

Technically he did, but not during his time at LZ. Jimmy Page played the guitar.

Re: The open web isn't dying, we're killing it

#68

Post by nine_k »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #43
nine_k wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point of playing guitar any more? You're not going to be another Elvis. You're not going to be another Robert Plant or Paco de Lucia, even if you play equally good. The world is choke-full of excellent guitar music recordings. People still play guitar nevertheless. They do it for the enjoyment of the few friends sitting next to them, and, most of all, for the fun they personally have in the process. If yo…

Your metaphor doesn't apply. It's not pointless to create a new site because better ones exist. It's pointless because it will get scraped and summarized/remixed for someone else's profit, if the few sites people use for discovery even deign to index it. And the people who do consume it will be too lazy to read it in its original unsummarized form. You can still journal for the love of writing, but why put the effort…

> get scraped and summarized/remixed for someone else's profit

Well, yes, so what? Are you creating it for your own enjoyment, or are you holding yourself back to stick it to the greedy capitalist? It would be hard to find your site using Google, unless you know a perfect long fragment, but it was equally hard, or harder, to find it using AltaVista in 1995! People who care link to each other and participate in webrings, much like they did 30 years ago.

Everything is dust in the wind, everything we create is most likely going to perish, make peace with that. Then you notice that there is a gap between the moment you create something, and the time it perishes, and it's plenty long enough to bring joy to you and those you care about, and maybe even random passers-by.

Re: The open web isn't dying, we're killing it

#69

Post by bruce511 »

jacquesm wrote: post #60
bruce511 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the concept of this at a principle level. But how does it play out for you? I mean, to what extent do you succumb to the monoculture because while principles are good, you live in the real world? So, like, what phone OS do you use? There's not much choice but did you choose Android over iOS because it's more open? Or did you go the whole way and use PalmOS or Symbian? Do you pick airlines based on what planes t…

> So, like, what phone OS do you use? Nokia N800. > Do you pick airlines based on what planes they fly? I stopped flying entirely. > Do you choose Bing over Google? Still using Google but working very hard on moving away from it. Yes, I too live in the real world and I'm a really annoying customer for banks, insurance companies and my government by insisting they serve me without bending over and adopting some eco-sy…

I applaud your dedication to not succumbing to the appification of everything.

Unfortunately you are an outlier and society is not built for outliers.

Equally, unfortunately, the opinion of outliers does not really help the argument for a more open web. Yes there's some small number of people on mastodon but telling my hairdresser to not use Facebook is not terribly useful to her.

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