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Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#61

Post by palata »

autoexec wrote: post #44
eigenrick wrote: post #12

So we're re-creating the Apollo 8 Mission 60 years later. 60 years after swinging around the moon, we are going to attempt the feat again. I'm having a hard time getting excited... Especially when some say it may not survive reentry because of politics ( https://idlewords.com/2026/03/artemis_ii_is_not_safe_to_fly.... )

I thought I'd heard they'd already made changes to the heat shield after the last failure. Hopefully whatever they learn from this trip will be useful for their next one.

So they made a first real test with Artemis I, and it was deemed unsafe because of the heat shield. So they modified the heat shield and didn't bother making a real test with it. "Move fast and break things", I guess?

Sure, they tested it on the ground. But that's what they did for Artemis I, and we know how successful that was.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#62

Post by majkinetor »

palata wrote: post #11

I grew up admiring the Apollo mission and the likes. Nowadays, I recognise that it is heavy engineering, but I am not so impressed by the fact that we are throwing so much resources at something that we already know we can do. In fact, we have had humans surviving in space for decades now. It's costing a lot, it's not bringing much. But more than that: we have much more important problems to solve, starting with our…

> we are throwing so much resources at something that we already know we can do.

No, "we" knew how to do it with 10x more money and people on the board, in a very unsafely manner. It was a few times muscle flex and thats why it stopped.

Making entire thing routine, cheap and safe is something else, and "we" don't know yet how to do that, or we would have at least few scientists constantly on the Moon.

It's a difference between running a marathon and dropping dead, and doing it all the time.

> we have ...[other]... problems

This kind of thinking is nonsensical. With so many people around, there can be arbitrary group of people working on any kind of problem, without them needing to point to other groups as doing imaginary problems. You talk like unless everybody works on solving specific problem, its not going to get solved. Life simply doesn't work that way, mythical man month explained it well why for one, and then, you can't know what unexplored spaces bring (maybe game changing discoveries).

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#63

Post by palata »

scubbo wrote: post #46
palata wrote: post #11

I grew up admiring the Apollo mission and the likes. Nowadays, I recognise that it is heavy engineering, but I am not so impressed by the fact that we are throwing so much resources at something that we already know we can do. In fact, we have had humans surviving in space for decades now. It's costing a lot, it's not bringing much. But more than that: we have much more important problems to solve, starting with our…

> the current mass extinction we are living in is happening orders of magnitude faster than the one that killed the dinosaurs Fascinating. My naive perception of the extinction event was that it was relatively sudden, on a personal rather than geological timescale - decades or maybe generations. But it looks like it might be "_rapid extinction, perhaps over a period of less than 10,000 years_" [0]. Goes to show how u…

Yep. We all know that "the dinosaurs disappeared", but very few know how long it took. The dinosaurs were not witnessing the climate warming year after year, by a long shot... What we are witnessing right now is happening exceedingly fast.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#64

Post by eeixlk »

Trump attempted to significantly decrease NASAs budgets and cancel missions so this is happening despite him, and I cant feel joy for this when we are putting people in cages, manipulating stock markets, entering pointless wars, and raising prices of everything while Billionares massively increase their wealth through technically-legal manipulations of the system. This feels like a sad memory of what used to be more than anything else.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#65

Post by gedy »

g947o wrote: post #43
gedy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We handed out 300 billion in cash payments alone for COVID stimulus, this is not that crazy especially if you factor in the knowledge and skills put to work and retained.

One is real cash going into the hands of ordinary people for everyday purchases, which has proven (in various studies) to have helped parents/families and the financially struggled. The other is "knowledge and skills" that seem remote and detached from people's lives. As someone whose life isn't affected much by either of these, I would choose the stimulus every time.

The money was not vaporized by aerospace companies, it's largely spent in US on salaries, subcontractors, etc. Not against stimulus but to call out the amount in comparison is reasonable.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#66

Post by palata »

Gagarin1917 wrote: post #50
palata wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That, and most people don't care about the Apollo missions that happened after Apollo 11. Hell, nobody knows the name of the third guy who did not get to set foot on the Moon with Apollo 11.

Most people don’t care about Apollo 11 period. They know it happened but they have zero interest in it or the history. That’s why the average person doesn’t cares now. They never actually did.

Well the comparison is not what people think about Apollo 11 right now, but what they thought back then.

Back then, it was a big event that made the news worldwide.

Artemis II launched yesterday, and my non-engineer relatives and friends don't even know it happened (they don't even know it was planned).

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#67

Post by Gagarin1917 »

palata wrote: post #66
Gagarin1917 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don’t care about Apollo 11 period. They know it happened but they have zero interest in it or the history. That’s why the average person doesn’t cares now. They never actually did.

Well the comparison is not what people think about Apollo 11 right now , but what they thought back then . Back then, it was a big event that made the news worldwide. Artemis II launched yesterday, and my non-engineer relatives and friends don't even know it happened (they don't even know it was planned).

It WAS global news, I assure you. Every major news agency and local news channels talked about it.

People don’t get their “news” from news agencies anymore, though. They get it from their social media algorithms, and if they have no prior interest in anything space or tangential to space, they won’t get news about it.

And if they did hear about it, it probably didn’t connect whatsoever, and their brain filled it away in the same place as “city bus makes successful stop at bus stop.” Because they couldn’t care less.

Culture is far less centralized, for better or worse.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#69

Post by palata »

majkinetor wrote: post #62
palata wrote: post #11

I grew up admiring the Apollo mission and the likes. Nowadays, I recognise that it is heavy engineering, but I am not so impressed by the fact that we are throwing so much resources at something that we already know we can do. In fact, we have had humans surviving in space for decades now. It's costing a lot, it's not bringing much. But more than that: we have much more important problems to solve, starting with our…

> we are throwing so much resources at something that we already know we can do. No, "we" knew how to do it with 10x more money and people on the board, in a very unsafely manner. It was a few times muscle flex and thats why it stopped. Making entire thing routine, cheap and safe is something else, and "we" don't know yet how to do that, or we would have at least few scientists constantly on the Moon. It's a differen…

I am not sure what you are trying to say. So people should be ecstatic about it because "it's almost the same thing, but this time the people having fun onboard are not taking remotely as much risk (other than NASA sending them knowing that the heat shield is unsafe), and the whole thing is a lot cheaper"? And then should we invest billions do go there in 3 days instead of 6, and expect that people will be impressed?

> With so many people around, there can be arbitrary group of people working on any kind of problem

Sure. It's just that this particular group of people does it with taxpayer money, and it's measurably not very useful. That money could go to... I don't know... feed people? Just one example.

> You talk like unless everybody works on solving specific problem, its not going to get solved.

Actually, if you read a bit about the problem that I am mentioning (i.e. our survival), I think it's relatively clear that "solving it properly" is impossible (that ship has sailed), and "solving it badly" will require sacrifices from pretty much everybody alive. We literally need everybody to change their lifestyle in order to have more chances of survival. And even that will not prevent very bad things from happening to most people.

And I am saying that being pretty optimistic about it. A shortcut is simply "we're pretty much screwed". And if you don't realise it, it's probably because you don't really understand the problem.

Re: Why Doesn't Anybody Realize We're Going Back to the Moon?

#70

Post by Gagarin1917 »

voidfunc wrote: post #10

Been there; done that. This whole thing is nerd fantasy come to life but its not particularly useful and right now the world for most people is about trying to figure out how to deal with the cost of everything thanks to a poorly planned war against Iran.

This just isn’t true, people have tons of interests beyond “things that are useful” and “trying to figure out how to deal with the cost of everything.”

I’m almost certain you have genuine interests beyond your financials, and enjoy entertainment in general.

The fact is, the vast majority of people (and perhaps yourself) never actually cared about space or space exploration. I think most of this dismissiveness comes from people thinking they SHOULD care, and need to rationalize why they don’t.

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