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DoorDash Tasks

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Re: DoorDash Tasks

#61

Post by stego-tech »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #47
stego-tech wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’d be nice if folks like yourself were equally obsessed with the systemic harms that would come about from solving or addressing this problem rather than charging full-speed ahead into the unknown at everyone else’s expense. Problems aren’t solely technological in nature, nor are their impacts and solutions. Never forget the humans behind the models.

What’s that look like in your mind?

It's understanding impact before taking action, especially on issues at scale (like labor displacement/replacement technologies). It's being vocal about shaping society in ways that reduce harms that naturally occur from inventions and technological revolutions instead of pawning it off to "other experts" or the workers themselves. It's engaging stakeholders beyond your comfort zone and social circles to build consensus, shape movements, and mitigate damage done while amplifying the good that would come from such a profound change. It's slowing or stopping work if society refuses to adapt, or targeting your output to harm those blocking the transformations needed to protect the commoners and guarantee prosperity is shared equally instead of hoarded. It's ostracizing those who choose to pursue such selfish ends while remaining willfully ignorant of (or worse, deliberately working towards) the harms they'll cause to others, applying negative pressure to influence positive reforms or warning others of the harm they'll incur by engaging in such socially-hostile behaviors.

At its core, it's about understanding (the metaphorical) you are not a single person but a cog in a much larger machine, and that your actions reverberate throughout that machine in ways that are largely predictable, at least for a reasonable number of next-order impacts. Putting aside emotional intelligence like empathy and compassion for a bit, the practical intelligence needed to solve these tasks at a scale where robots or machines can displace labor implies a similar capacity to understand the harms and impacts of said solutions on a populace. To focus solely on solving the problem before you rather than acknowledging the impact it will have beyond you is to willfully reject accountability in favor of achievement, and we have enough vainglorious chuds in technology as-is.

Re: DoorDash Tasks

#62

Post by AndrewKemendo »

stego-tech wrote: post #61
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s that look like in your mind?

It's understanding impact before taking action, especially on issues at scale (like labor displacement/replacement technologies). It's being vocal about shaping society in ways that reduce harms that naturally occur from inventions and technological revolutions instead of pawning it off to "other experts" or the workers themselves. It's engaging stakeholders beyond your comfort zone and social circles to build consen…

I wrote a whole ass paper covering all of this that got significant coverage and discussion here on HN if you search for it

https://kemendo.com/Myth-of-Scarcity.html

So I’m pretty sure I’ve got it covered. Good ideas though

Re: DoorDash Tasks

#63

Post by TheRoque »

cheesecompiler wrote: post #4

Labour getting ever-granular in the age of micro-loans and RentAHuman. > "Dashers have a new way to earn on their own terms" The classic meaning inversion of precariousness and lack of benefits as a virtue.

To me it's a typical symptom of a bad economy. If you go to any third world country you'll see such jobs easily. People just gathering scraps to make ends meet because getting money is hard. If it were really "their own terms" they wouldn't do that kind of job at all.

Re: DoorDash Tasks

#64

Post by matthewdgreen »

xienze wrote: post #41
matthewdgreen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DoorDash lobbies heavily against laws that would regulate labor, or classify its workers as “employees” and thus require they be covered by the minimal protections our country offers.

To be fair, it’s not really their fault that there are people who want to treat work that normally would be considered a way to pick up a few bucks during free time as a full time career. Sure, go ahead and make fast food delivery a highly regulated line of work that pays $30/hour with benefits. Just don’t be surprised when it no longer becomes economically viable for DoorDash to continue operating.

DoorDash not being able to continue operating doesn’t bother me one bit. They aren’t curing cancer, and a society with fewer food delivery options based on extorting poor people to turn their vehicle’s equity into less cash than it’s worth will still be a fine society. But I would be perfectly fine if they continued to exist and simply provided some basic guarantees like subsidized healthcare for their employees.

Re: DoorDash Tasks

#65

Post by stego-tech »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #62
stego-tech wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's understanding impact before taking action, especially on issues at scale (like labor displacement/replacement technologies). It's being vocal about shaping society in ways that reduce harms that naturally occur from inventions and technological revolutions instead of pawning it off to "other experts" or the workers themselves. It's engaging stakeholders beyond your comfort zone and social circles to build consen…

I wrote a whole ass paper covering all of this that got significant coverage and discussion here on HN if you search for it https://kemendo.com/Myth-of-Scarcity.html So I’m pretty sure I’ve got it covered. Good ideas though

You asked me a question, and I answered. You didn't say, "could you read this paper of mine and see where we might differ or what my blindspots are", you just gave me a throwaway one-liner that, in hindsight, seems to have been little more than a tee-up for this exact response.

I'll add said paper to my reading list, at least.

Re: DoorDash Tasks

#66

Post by randycupertino »

EA-3167 wrote: post #32
k33n wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those jurisdictions stifle innovation. Thankfully, the vast majority of the US does not do that. Door Dashers in 99% of the US will now have a button to click that will put more money in their pockets. Very good!

Innovation in what exactly?

Those states have more worker labor protections that apply to gig workers.

Re: DoorDash Tasks

#67

Post by randycupertino »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #25

If you haven’t figured it out by now the future of all work is transfer learning and encoding human action so that all possible action is mechanized and commoditized. I’ve been obsessed with this problem for the better part of 20 years The fact that we’re finally starting to see it realized is very exciting

Horrific dystopian take.

Re: DoorDash Tasks

#68

Post by jmye »

brianwawok wrote: post #37
reddozen wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the politicians are bought out by evil DoorDash's lobbying, why don't the voters just vote the politicians out? Do you have any evidence of a politician voting against their constituents' interests for personal gain?

Ignoring the easy second line, the answer to the first line is: we have two political parties in the US. What if neither are doing what the voters want?

Then people should stop being dumbfucks and engage in local (which are frequently non-partisan) and state elections and primaries, and stop pretending that "the president didn't fix everything and make this a socialist utopia, so both parties suck" is a useful or vaguely intelligent criticism.

Re: DoorDash Tasks

#69

Post by enoint »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #62
stego-tech wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's understanding impact before taking action, especially on issues at scale (like labor displacement/replacement technologies). It's being vocal about shaping society in ways that reduce harms that naturally occur from inventions and technological revolutions instead of pawning it off to "other experts" or the workers themselves. It's engaging stakeholders beyond your comfort zone and social circles to build consen…

I wrote a whole ass paper covering all of this that got significant coverage and discussion here on HN if you search for it https://kemendo.com/Myth-of-Scarcity.html So I’m pretty sure I’ve got it covered. Good ideas though

I read that, and it’s one thing to advocate for relaxation over scarcity when, say, the Gini index shows decreasing inequity.

But the organized right-wingers regularly talking about scarcity. The unelected deep state DOGE operatives who have never run for office. Does contradicting the narrative about scarcity necessarily mean undermining the top billionaires?

Re: DoorDash Tasks

#70

Post by brendoelfrendo »

k33n wrote: post #52
EA-3167 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovation in what exactly?

It's right there in the article. An innovative idea in the field of distributed labor, enabled by technology is being launched in the 99% of the US that allows ideas to be tried freely. I'm happy to see it!

Worker protections are good, actually.
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