If the billionaires in power thought that they could grow their wealth 1% more by forcing the rest of us humans into gestation crates, they would do it in a heartbeat.
New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
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Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
#62Humanity is almost definitely going to wipe itself out in the not too distant future through an avoidable (if not for the selfish greed of many of us) climate change resource war Great Filter event. This used to really bother me, but lately I'm thinking it is probably for the best.
One of my favorite questions to ask people is something like: "Imagine a button appears in front of you. Pressing it will snap all human beings painlessly out of existence. Do you push the button?" Some people get caught in minutiae about downstream effects, I tell them it can go however they want (house pets are free or gone too, planes land harmlessly, etc) In my circles, I've found it's about 50/50 button pushers…
If I were to implement such a button, I'd make it so that only the people who said "yes" would disappear.
Life is a gift. A painless life has no value. In fact, if you are genetically immune to pain, your lifetime survival rate is something like the teens.
Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
#63Here's a link to the bill if you are interested in who sponsored and cosponsored it. It's a total of 24 people, so it had a fair bit of support. If you live in the district of one of these people you might consider contacting them to let them know your opinion. https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/4673...
The "R-" after their names means they're all Republicans, right?
Yes, [R-IA-4] means Republican from Iowa's 4th Congressional District.
Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Biomes are not moral subjects and don't deserve consideration. (Pigs are).
> Biomes are not moral subjects and don't deserve consideration. (Pigs are). Where do you think animals live?
Causing harm to biomes is not the same thing as causing net harm to animals inside biomes. The base rate of harm done to animals inside biomes is immense and horrific.
Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of my favorite questions to ask people is something like: "Imagine a button appears in front of you. Pressing it will snap all human beings painlessly out of existence. Do you push the button?" Some people get caught in minutiae about downstream effects, I tell them it can go however they want (house pets are free or gone too, planes land harmlessly, etc) In my circles, I've found it's about 50/50 button pushers…
It's impossible to refute anecdotes purporting to represent populations based on what they might do in a hypothetical, and the people being described fade further out of tangible existence at every next layer of abstraction. But Most Vegans I Know (tm) regard human life as valuabe, speak in terms of harm reduction, and tend not to fantasize about making Vault Tec real.
If human life is net harmful, then harm reduction means targeting 0 humans.
Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not even nice. People ate meat because fresh fruit and vegetables weren't available all year round or even at all. All good food has plants to make it taste nice. You can easily just skip the meat and go straight for the flavour.
The Alaskan word for "vegetables" is literally "boring food"
Do you live in Alaska?
Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
#67Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
#68I find it odd we need legislation to prevent this. There are not enough consumers to care? Or maybe with legislation we get better outcomes due to scaling effects? If we are willing to use legislation, could we tax such gestation crates, and use that tax revenue to breed unconscious pigs? Or find a way to disable consciousness in their brain? Or fund lab meat? I'm sure small labs are doing this, but if we are at the…
> If we are willing to use legislation, could we tax such gestation crates, and use that tax revenue to breed unconscious pigs? Or find a way to disable consciousness in their brain? Or fund lab meat?
This is the kind of "big government libertarian" thinking that you only find on HN. It's like virtue signalling but the virtue is contrarianism. What you've suggested is more complicated, less ethical, less effective, and likely to be opposed by just about everyone across the political spectrum.
Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of my favorite questions to ask people is something like: "Imagine a button appears in front of you. Pressing it will snap all human beings painlessly out of existence. Do you push the button?" Some people get caught in minutiae about downstream effects, I tell them it can go however they want (house pets are free or gone too, planes land harmlessly, etc) In my circles, I've found it's about 50/50 button pushers…
FWIW I wouldn't push the button. I just think we are going to absolutely deserve the outcome as we collectively and metaphorically push that button... which we continue to do and are regressing on stopping ourselves from doing so a handful of super wealthy can watch gamified number go up.
What makes you think that we we collectively and metaphorically are pushing the painless button?
Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates
#70Humanity is almost definitely going to wipe itself out in the not too distant future through an avoidable (if not for the selfish greed of many of us) climate change resource war Great Filter event. This used to really bother me, but lately I'm thinking it is probably for the best.
One of my favorite questions to ask people is something like: "Imagine a button appears in front of you. Pressing it will snap all human beings painlessly out of existence. Do you push the button?" Some people get caught in minutiae about downstream effects, I tell them it can go however they want (house pets are free or gone too, planes land harmlessly, etc) In my circles, I've found it's about 50/50 button pushers…
We have examples of how that actually plays out (in a limited form).