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I'm Not Consulting an LLM

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Re: I'm Not Consulting an LLM

#61

Post by carlosjobim »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #2

I understand the author’s sentiment but I would like to give a counter example: I like to read philosophy and after I read a passage and think about it, I find it useful to copy the passage into a decent model and ask for its interpretation, or if it is something old ask about word choice or meaning. I realize that I may not be getting perfect information, but LLM output gives me ideas that are a combination of live…

Why would you even read philosophy if you're then consulting a third party for interpretation? That is the definition of meaningless.

That is like listening to music and asking somebody if you liked a song.

Re: I'm Not Consulting an LLM

#62

Post by perks_12 »

siquick wrote: post #44
perks_12 wrote: post #30

I google a lot (or rather, Kagi). I loved to explore the web when I was younger. But over time I lost any interest in trying to gather informational bits from increasingly shittier websites designed to have more ads and hide relevant information for as many ad slots as possible. These days I hit the quick answer button inside Kagi more often and just accept that I might have some false information in there. If it is…

> These days I hit the quick answer button inside Kagi more often Just incase you didn’t know you can append ? to any query and get a quick answer straight away

Actually, I didn't know. Thanks!

Re: I'm Not Consulting an LLM

#63

Post by disinz »

cmiles8 wrote: post #45

I see the SDE pushback on LLMs, but most of it is unfounded. Like any new tool, if used irresponsibly of course bad things can happen. Most of the backlash from devs seems rooted in: 1. It causes a step change in productivity for those that use it well, and as a result a step change in the expectations on productivity for dev teams. Folks simply expect things to be done faster now and that’s annoying folks that have…

> in my experience LLM code is actually better documented

Most LLM documentation is extremely poor unless you literally can’t understand code. It’s communicating obvious things that the code makes apparent. Good documentation covers what’s not obvious from reading the code. I’m amazed at how many devs think running Claude init is a good idea.

I’ve noticed a constant trend throughout my career that low performing devs generate and are impressed with this kind of documentation.

> and structured than what most dev teams produce

Left alone, LLM structure is terrible. Speed running the cheapest outsourced slop is not a good thing unless you’re already paying for outsourced slop. Huge win in that case.

LLMs are median equalizers. I think a large contingent of devs (especially given the money grab around 2021) are not that good, and LLMs really are a step improvement for them. I’m not denying there are use cases for competent devs, but so far that seems much narrower (albeit insanely impressive) than the benefit low performers (think) they receive. This fact is important to keep in mind when discussing the future of dev.

Re: I'm Not Consulting an LLM

#64

Post by tylervigen »

carlosjobim wrote: post #61
mark_l_watson wrote: post #2

I understand the author’s sentiment but I would like to give a counter example: I like to read philosophy and after I read a passage and think about it, I find it useful to copy the passage into a decent model and ask for its interpretation, or if it is something old ask about word choice or meaning. I realize that I may not be getting perfect information, but LLM output gives me ideas that are a combination of live…

Why would you even read philosophy if you're then consulting a third party for interpretation? That is the definition of meaningless. That is like listening to music and asking somebody if you liked a song.

I would say it's more like enjoying a song so much that you choose to listen to a cover of that song.

Re: I'm Not Consulting an LLM

#65

Post by simianwords »

simonw wrote: post #22
chrysoprace wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs can be injected with biases as well. Just look at Grok's responses any time it's tagged in anything mildly political.

I mean yeah, it's Grok. They had to work really hard to get their preferred levels of political bias in there.

Any examples of political bias?

Re: I'm Not Consulting an LLM

#66

Post by sph »

demorro wrote: post #54
delusional wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I realize that I may not be getting perfect information, but LLM output gives me ideas that are a combination of live web searching and whatever innate knowledge the LLM holds in its weights. I don't mean to be judgemental. It's possible this is a personal observation, but I do wonder if it's not universal. I find that if I give an inch to these models thinking, I instantly become lazy. It doesn't really matter if…

Seconding this. Revelation happens subtly, often far removed from what you might later unpick as its "primary source". Immediate interpretation tend to be plastic and shallow.

Also it might be hard to grasp for most of us, used to constant stimulation and lack of space for contemplation and incorporation of information (I recommend the works of philosopher Byung-Chul Han on the matter) with yet unknown effects on our psyche and creative output. It takes days or weeks for one to sit and digest novel viewpoints; asking a machine to skip all that work for us is just another example of seeking instant gratification. I have no time to think, do it for me, so I can scroll to the next post already.

Re: I'm Not Consulting an LLM

#68

Post by cindyllm »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #51
n0on3 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be aware of it if that was the case? I don’t mean this to be hostile or anything but the senario in which one does not notice himself and it goes unnoticed or silently accepted externally does not seem too far fetched to me.

Probably, yes. If we don’t have a clear understanding of the fundamentals, it can make life difficult. Having that understanding, often helps us to verify new information. My personal experience has been “layers,” with the new layer building upon, and often subsuming, the substrate. But it does mean that there’s limits. A lot of folks start at points higher than mine, and can go much further than me. That’s fine; as…

[dead]

Re: I'm Not Consulting an LLM

#69

Post by Rapzid »

disinz wrote: post #63
cmiles8 wrote: post #45

I see the SDE pushback on LLMs, but most of it is unfounded. Like any new tool, if used irresponsibly of course bad things can happen. Most of the backlash from devs seems rooted in: 1. It causes a step change in productivity for those that use it well, and as a result a step change in the expectations on productivity for dev teams. Folks simply expect things to be done faster now and that’s annoying folks that have…

> in my experience LLM code is actually better documented Most LLM documentation is extremely poor unless you literally can’t understand code. It’s communicating obvious things that the code makes apparent. Good documentation covers what’s not obvious from reading the code. I’m amazed at how many devs think running Claude init is a good idea. I’ve noticed a constant trend throughout my career that low performing devs…

There is definitely a sort of undercurrent online to a lot of the claims and animosity towards anyone questioning LLMs or even exploring the downsides. Tons of anger and vitriol; on HN now even.

I get the sense a lot of new and middling engineers view this as some shortcut to success. Angry about getting passed on promotions, push back on their PRs, questioned why things are taking so long(hint: because they weren't actually putting in a full days work), or not making the grade for FAANG.

Now here is LLM and it's their chance to get stuff done without having to do much work. Don't need to have put in the work to learn and study. Now all those that were keeping them down before are the REAL problem because they are too slow, too out of date. What a gift! It's the great mediocracy uprising!

I haven't quite wrapped my head around it but there is definitely some weird social stuff going on.

Re: I'm Not Consulting an LLM

#70

Post by mr_mitm »

v3xro wrote: post #41
XenophileJKO wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess, how often do you pay someone to fix your car? Repair something in your house? Give you financial advice? Those are all things many people outsource their thinking to other people with.

No, you outsource it because it's not your core competency. I think humans should be able to do anything and not narrowly specialise as narrow specialisation leads to tunnel vision. Sometimes you need to outsource to someone because of legal reasons (and rightly so, mostly because the complexities involved do require someone who is a professional in that area). Can some things be simplified? Of course they can, and t…

Nobody said "we don't need to think at all" though. The statement was "not having to think", or rephrased: "being able to choose how much to think or what to think about".
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