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Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

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Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#61

Post by cedws »

adrianN wrote: post #49
cedws wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I lived in Tokyo for 6 months as a digital nomad (so still working for an overseas employer.) As much as I love Japan, after hearing what the work culture is like I became pretty sure I didn't want to move there permanently. Not only is it an extremely unmeritocratic environment, the pay for software engs is rubbish. As a foreigner you'll more than likely be treated like dirt and passed up on for promotions. I…

I’ve heard people argue that Japan stays appealing because it is closed off and puts effort into maintaining their culture instead of modernizing into a generic western melting pot.

I think it's possible to open up without swinging the doors wide open like we have in the UK. There's also the argument that on Japan's current course, there won't be much culture left in a century due to population decline. Japan needs to very quickly correct course without completely submitting to cultural replacement.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#62

Post by numpad0 »

founditerating wrote: post #21
mfuzzey wrote: post #19

"we really need to focus on user-facing touchpoints, because there’s too much sign-up friction. Like, we need to 10x the stickiness of the landing page but also keep it lean," Even as a native English speaker I find this type of language hard to understand, fluffy and ambiguous. We would all benefit from using plain language not just non native English speakers

Who the hell talks like this in the first place? I've worked in Japan for 7 years and majority of the time you will not be working with native English speakers, usually people who speak multiple languages at all times, if you're only language you know is English you are the minority and people will have to work with you to understand. I couldnt even finish the article after that insane ramble of gibberish I'm genuine…

> Who the hell talks like this in the first place?

guys that aren't sure if the yellow isn't too much

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#64

Post by netsharc »

sunray2 wrote: post #18

Something the article touches on: communication is not just about how we express ourselves, it's about this mutual respect that that we have to grow into. That crosses any boundary, and is something we can always learn. You can see that, to some extent, in how the article’s points apply to language and communication in general, not just between Japanese and English. While turns of phrase give your repartee a flavour…

The Honda collaboration "wrecked" McLaren too for several years last decade (incidentally it also featured Alonso, who complained about "GP2 engines!"). Damn, they were unbeatable for a few years with Red Bull, but it seems those engineers moved to RBPT, and they now have a typical Japanese/Asian "non-communicative" engineering team...

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#65

Post by rbanffy »

adrianN wrote: post #59
rbanffy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving to a different culture and adapting to it is a great way of shaking up your brain. Moving between very different cultures is a challenge, but the rewards are accordingly nicer, but it really sucks when the new culture doesn’t welcome and integrate you into it.

It is difficult for a culture to find a good balance between openness and conservation.

Some mixing is unavoidable. For instance, here in Ireland, an increasing number of Irish natives are aware of a Brazilian delicacy called "pão de queijo", thanks to the massive number of Brazilian residents. The way student visas work here is that they allow part-time work, and lots of Brazilians go for food services, bringing some of our recipes with them.

Between Hungary and Turkey, something similar happened with the pogacza. I brough some cheese pogacza to the office and a Turkish colleague immediately recognized what it was. We couldn't really figure out which culture it comes from, but we agree it's delicious and dangerously addictive.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#66

Post by socalgal2 »

muyuu wrote: post #38

I worked in Japan for ~7 years. I don't think I can relate with any of this, for starters I think not speaking Japanese relatively fluently would completely shape your experience from the get go. Granted, this was a long time ago and even seeing non-Japanese around in Tokyo was rare, unlike now. But in the office environment let alone in tech, I doubt you can really make it work without not just speaking Japanese, bu…

I agree with you. The person in the article worked at Mercari which I used to go their tech meetups. The moment you entered it was as though you teleported into an SF/SV meetup. Mostly English speaking people with English presentations in a room with an SV like microkitchen, free SV snacks, etc... That's not the norm at all.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#67

Post by socalgal2 »

faizan199 wrote: post #23

Do Japanese people know English?

No, in general they don't. Anyone telling you differently was in a bubble of English speaking Japanese. That's not the norm, not even in Tokyo.

Engineers can probably read because the majority of tech, computer languages, libraries, their docs are in English. Though that might change now that LLMs can make all the docs in Japanese removing the need for English skills.

Speaking ability is rare.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#68

Post by socalgal2 »

3371 wrote: post #63
faizan199 wrote: post #23

Do Japanese people know English?

Do (your country) people know Japanese?

I'm not sure what this question was meant to convey.

There are many countries (or cities) in the world where you can easily get by in English beacuse almost everyone you need to / want to interact with can speak English. Amsterdam, Paris, Berlin, Stockholm are 4 the come to mind even though their native languages are Dutch, French, German, Swedish.

Japan is not one of those countries. Yes, you can survive without speaking Japanese with a lot of effort and asking friends to translate.

So it's not an unreasonable question to ask if they speak English. It's effectively asking, are they liked the 4 cities mentioned above.

I was once at a bar in Tokyo and where I met a young French woman who was thrilled to be going back to France after 6 months in Japan. She had wrongly assumed the her English would get her by like it had in many other countries who's first language was not English.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#69

Post by Klonoar »

founditerating wrote: post #21
mfuzzey wrote: post #19

"we really need to focus on user-facing touchpoints, because there’s too much sign-up friction. Like, we need to 10x the stickiness of the landing page but also keep it lean," Even as a native English speaker I find this type of language hard to understand, fluffy and ambiguous. We would all benefit from using plain language not just non native English speakers

Who the hell talks like this in the first place? I've worked in Japan for 7 years and majority of the time you will not be working with native English speakers, usually people who speak multiple languages at all times, if you're only language you know is English you are the minority and people will have to work with you to understand. I couldnt even finish the article after that insane ramble of gibberish I'm genuine…

There are definitely companies in Japan that have people who will talk like this.

Hell, I’ve advised some of them.

Re: Working and Communicating with Japanese Engineers

#70

Post by socalgal2 »

photios wrote: post #41
koito17 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's preventing Japanese engineers from doing the same? The fact they don't really need it in their life (or job). English is definitely necessary if you work service jobs in Tokyo (to deal with tourists), but not much anywhere else. Japanese is one of a handful of languages where one can complete a postdoc entirely within the language. Many languages are not like this. e.g. in the Phillipines, STEM subjects are…

> The fact they don't really need it in their life (or job). English is definitely necessary if you work service jobs in Tokyo (to deal with tourists), but not much anywhere else. But the linked article seems to imply the opposite. I mean, working with an English PM sure sounds like the language is one of the job's core competencies.

The linked article worked at an outlier. Mercari is extremely far from the norm.
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