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Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

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61–70 of 125 posts

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#61
post #44

20+ years in tech and finance and I still can’t believe liquidation preferences are legal. Even among shareholders, a group of insiders in a conference room can self-deal to keep all the money for themselves and screw common stockholders who had no representation in that room.

I've been screwed out of company stock at liquidation multiple times. Who decide to pay never to favor the workers.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#62
post #44

20+ years in tech and finance and I still can’t believe liquidation preferences are legal. Even among shareholders, a group of insiders in a conference room can self-deal to keep all the money for themselves and screw common stockholders who had no representation in that room.

By the time most of us are dead, I think we’ll have enough evidence that human systems mostly don’t work (this is a personal realization, just for ourselves, no one will be able to strip you have the realization). If it worked for you, congrats, you were lucky.

What sort of evidence are you looking for? The current general system of free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy has created an unprecedented era of prosperity for those of us lucky enough to live in (relatively) civilized countries. There are lots of problems that we need to fix but on average by almost any objective metric the situation is better than ever.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#63
post #44

20+ years in tech and finance and I still can’t believe liquidation preferences are legal. Even among shareholders, a group of insiders in a conference room can self-deal to keep all the money for themselves and screw common stockholders who had no representation in that room.

Liquidation preferences that merely guarantee you get back the cash you put in before anyone else gets anything are a perfectly reasonable protection for investors.

Otherwise, the risk is investors put in $1m for 10% of the company, only for the founder-CEO to decide a month later - perhaps totally genuinely and honestly after initial R&D - that the entire business plan wasn't viable after all and the best thing for stockholders is to liquidate the company... and then walk away, personally, with $900k while returning only $100k to the investors. And obviously because this scenario is possible, there would be great temptation among dishonest founders to "realise" their companies "aren't viable" in order to walk away with all the cash. Something has to protect investors from this outcome, and remove the perverse incentive on founders to promptly liquidate after getting investment. A liquidation preference where the investor gets repaid before any distributions go to other stockholders is one way of achieving that protection; what alternative would you prefer?

As for liquidation preferences with a multiplier (i.e. we get paid back X times our investment before anyone else gets anything), eh, I wouldn't outright make them illegal, but it's less clear to me they are always serving a legitimate purpose, and they may grossly mislead the public about the actual valuation of the company implied by a given funding round AND mislead naive common stockholders and options holders about how much of the company they really own and what they can really expect to make in an exit.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#64
post #17

Is “have been made redundant” normal phrasing in the UK, or did the BBC just decide to use that kind of bloodless phrasing for “fired?”

"redundant" effectively means "dismissed because your old job no longer exists" rather than "dismissed because you're no good at your old job".

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#65
post #57
post #44

20+ years in tech and finance and I still can’t believe liquidation preferences are legal. Even among shareholders, a group of insiders in a conference room can self-deal to keep all the money for themselves and screw common stockholders who had no representation in that room.

You've got that backwards. Liquidation preferences typically go to early stage investors who receive special share classes. Those arrangements are fully disclosed to later stage investors. They knew what they were getting into and it's their own fault for making a sucker bet.

Not true (newer investors generally get seniority), but more importantly this is about common shareholders (generally employees and even founders) who never have the opportunity to get liq pref.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#66
post #14

From the guardian: “But about 220,000 investors, who contributed £75m in crowdfunding across seven “equity for punks” rounds, could walk away with nothing.” I used to love the idea of crowdfunding but then I watched a bunch of people buy worthless common stock and get hosed over and over.

I looked at one crowdfunding offering, under the SEC "Regulation Crowdfunding" and it was totally obvious that the business in question was pursuing that path because sensible investors wouldn't be interested in investing.

I don't see how there's many real investment opportunities where crowdfunding wouldn't result in largely unfavorable terms for the crowd.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#67
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean is it in common enough use that it shouldn’t stick out to me that a newspaper decided to use it instead of “fired,” “sacked,” or “laid off?” It’s got a whiff of “was involved with a shooting.”

It has legal implications, as others have expressed. It means your position was made redundant, and it allows you to be terminated with little legal complication, but on the understanding that the same position can't be re-hired for within a period, I think it's 6 months. Of course in reality it's not that simple, you get "made redundant" then they rephrase the job title a bit and hire someone else. Redundancy in the…

I’ve been involved in this once. There were two of us in the QA department that did subtly different jobs. They wanted rid of the other guy, but as we had very similar roles I had to be involved in the consultation process. What they did is very specifically outline the differences and that his were the ones that were redundant. My manager and friend pulled me into a room beforehand and told me ‘you’re gonna go through some shit but trust me you’re keeping your job’. It all left me with a fairly sour taste in my mouth and to this day I’m not entirely sure it was all above board. If a company wants you gone, they’ll figure a way to do it.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#68
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got that backwards. Liquidation preferences typically go to early stage investors who receive special share classes. Those arrangements are fully disclosed to later stage investors. They knew what they were getting into and it's their own fault for making a sucker bet.

New funding round investors generally get seniority over old But new money may allow buyouts of existing at that time so early team or investors can cash out a bit early And common doesn't cash out till IPO or private market equivalent, or yes, gets screwed

> About 200,000 people put money into the scheme, which offered a stake in the company, discounts and perks.

Hopefully they took advantage of the discounted beer.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#69
post #14

From the guardian: “But about 220,000 investors, who contributed £75m in crowdfunding across seven “equity for punks” rounds, could walk away with nothing.” I used to love the idea of crowdfunding but then I watched a bunch of people buy worthless common stock and get hosed over and over.

Well, the "investment" came with perks like free beer occasionally, 15% off your tab, invite to private events, etc. Stuff you don't get when you buy a share of MSFT. In my mind if an investment comes with perks like that it's more of a donation than an investment

Plenty of companies offer shareholder benefits without ripping off your rights as a shareholder.

The big cruise line companies will give shareholders on-board credit, Berkshire Hathaway has sales from their subsidiaries at the yearly meeting, Intercontinental Hotels has discounts, etc.

One of the customer service backdoors for some companies is to buy a share and contact investor relations if you are having a problem.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#70
post #27
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also seems like GLP-1 drugs may reduce drinking too.

Started ozempic over a year ago. I can do like one beer per social outing these days.

Is that because ozempic has reduced your tolerance, or because your tolerance has reduced due to less consumption in general?
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