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U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

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Re: U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

#61
post #49
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

All limited exchanges end in annihilation, parties are required to tit for tat the exchange and it's really easy to run out of targets when you are using nukes - forcing an escalation. If Taiwan was invaded, the only military targets for the US are in close proximity to major population centers. The response would be nukes on US Naval bases (in close proximity to US population centers). This would rapidly escalate to…

MAD is actually a myth - especially when it was invented in the 60s, its more so now, in theory, but in all practical sense - nobody can use the massive nukes, they would prolly melt the polar ice and screw the climate for sure... but, having them means something else: nobody without an equivalent number can actually engage with you.

Which is why tactical nukes will be used in the future - likely by the US, Russia, or later on, maybe China. The British and French only have enough if we support them - India and Pakistan hardly have enough for each other...

Essentially - if we did take out say half a city somewhere and Russia doesnt go to their "final at bat" forever, for some country that isn't Russia - nobody else will attack us directly either bc they can't destroy our capacity to entirely remove them from existing.

China would want to fire back - but do you waste a billion people to make your enemy really, really angry and determined to use all of their remaining capabilities - which is more than everyone else (cept Russia), with just what is outside of the US in subs...

I'm not actually joking here - trading a part of an iconic city, to be taught an unwanted lesson, is superior to losing all the skylines of all the cities and learning no more lessons ever.

That modern understanding is actually entirely different than Mao originally approached an exchange - he said he wasn't worried - bc China has enough people and cities.

This is the real reason America has so many - bc with our large sprawled out country and global distribution of nuclear capabilities - we will always be the last one pushing red buttons. That is all that matters in an actual nuclear war/exchange - being the last one left IS Winning.

I wont explain more, bc it clearly is uncomfortable to people, but essentially, if the US and Russia were to "allow" each other to use tactical nukes (with rules, they set for each other) - like my example with Kiev (which would accomplish sooo many things - I wont elaborate further in case the Pentagon has somehow that) - with that one move, condoning "limited tactical nukes" bc they are "so weak" compared to the "real ones" - we would immediately return to a bipolar world split between the US and Russia.

All those conversations about the end of NATO would immediately stop, for example.

Re: U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

#62
post #35

This is reminding us something that we should never have forgotten - modern war has an insatiable demand for munitions. To take just one example out of dozens, the US fired somewhere from 100 to 150 THAAD interceptors - about ¼ of the stockpile - during the 12 days war in 2025. We produce just under 100 per year. There are plans to raise that number to 400 per year. The Ukrainians were expending somewhere around 10,0…

That's why decapitation attacks can be very efficient, as wars are actually just extra-election elite changes since regular people minding their own business don't actually intend to kill some other group of people even if they are outrage and propaganda filled.

The problem is, those decapitation attacks work when the institutions are weak or structured in a way that all the power is in the hands of one person. It's always funny to watch in Hollywood movies everybody scrambled to save the US president and the US president being extremeyly important. Even in real life Americans swear in a replacement ASAP when the president dies (i.e. Kennedy). That's very funny from European perspective, RIP to the guy but just elect someone else why you are making it a big deal?

Also, the wars in Europe all have stories about how soldiers pausing the fight one the frontlines and having a chat sharing meals exchanging cigarettes with the opponent etc.

Re: U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

#63
post #61
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All limited exchanges end in annihilation, parties are required to tit for tat the exchange and it's really easy to run out of targets when you are using nukes - forcing an escalation. If Taiwan was invaded, the only military targets for the US are in close proximity to major population centers. The response would be nukes on US Naval bases (in close proximity to US population centers). This would rapidly escalate to…

MAD is actually a myth - especially when it was invented in the 60s, its more so now, in theory, but in all practical sense - nobody can use the massive nukes, they would prolly melt the polar ice and screw the climate for sure... but, having them means something else: nobody without an equivalent number can actually engage with you. Which is why tactical nukes will be used in the future - likely by the US, Russia, o…

We’ve used nuclear weapons before when it made sense and we’ll use them again when it makes sense. Tactical nuclear weapons have downsides and generally don’t make much sense. Hitting population centers works.

Re: U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

#65
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China was to attack Taiwan, now would be the time. The current world order is at least in part based around the notion of the US (and allies) having the military capacity to fight any plausible combination of foes at all times. That this military capacity was used in accordance to a set of rules with input from allies and partners made the system tolerable. If the US lacks the munitions to fight all of these confl…

Fortunately, China just decided to fire most of their military leadership and replaced them with inexperienced, but loyal grunts.

Why "fortunately"?

Re: U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real problem is that the US keeps attacking people at the behest of Israel and to the determent of US citizens.

It's not to the detriment of our ruling classes who have their hands on the actual levers of power.

And investments in key war suppliers.

Re: U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know who exports a lot of oil and gas NOT through the straight of hormuz?

It's just funny that people can't stomach that their own ruling class is leading them down the primrose path so they have to go casting about for a foreign bogeyman who's making it happen, despite the fact that every major Western power has bent the knee to this action against Iran.

I'm not American, at least it's not "my" ruling class

Re: U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

#68
What is the optimal strategy for Iran, if they assume that the regime can withstand the intensive bombardments and people won't take it to the streets like US / Israel are assuming ?

Wouldn't it be to only launch cheap missiles / drones for a week or two to deplete interceptors and only then start using more advanced missiles ?

Re: U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

#69
post #37

Lets say I'm on team regime change... aren't I also hoping someone we like somehow rises up and takes over that whole country too? That seems unlikely.

One possibility is the Shah's son takes over as a provisional leader. Here he is on 60 minutes today https://youtu.be/x2mIUZ3WCEg?t=110

It's tricky because the opposition don't have arms so it needs some of the guys who do to turn.

The US/Israel are being quite brutal though - killing all the regime leaders (as in youtube https://youtu.be/2TZF8_wwAUs?t=572)

Re: U.S. Races to Accomplish Iran Mission Before Munitions Run Out

#70
post #63
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MAD is actually a myth - especially when it was invented in the 60s, its more so now, in theory, but in all practical sense - nobody can use the massive nukes, they would prolly melt the polar ice and screw the climate for sure... but, having them means something else: nobody without an equivalent number can actually engage with you. Which is why tactical nukes will be used in the future - likely by the US, Russia, o…

We’ve used nuclear weapons before when it made sense and we’ll use them again when it makes sense. Tactical nuclear weapons have downsides and generally don’t make much sense. Hitting population centers works.

In theory, these new "tactical" systems are better able to engage military targets. In practice, a 500-kiloton payload can also be used to blanket a wide area with total destruction.

Nagasaki was 21 kilotons, which means an average 500 kt MIRV warhead carries the energy equivalent of roughly two dozen individual Nagasaki sized detonations.

They can easily be used on population centers. The word "tactical" is more like a rebranding of nuclear weapons.

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