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Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

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Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#61
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t feel the same. My own alma mater is a niche school. It officially gives admissions pref to legacies, but unofficially depends on parents sending their kids as the school is not well known. Harvard on the other hand - people go to Harvard to become elite. That only works because they get to hobnob with princes and the like. Thats the point. The Ivy’s do a good job of admitting non-elite students. I’m glad that…

The wild thing is that America pretends itself that it is a meritocracy while ... literally defending deeply nepotistic class based system like this. If the Harward did not took that many legacies, they would spread out to different schools. And mixed with others there. You dont need to collect kids of powerful in one place to achieve that.

> The wild thing is that America pretends itself that it is a meritocracy while

If you haven’t been paying attention, the elite have give up on that lie. They know it’s indefensible to even the dumbest Americans anymore.

Additionally the risk is over. The American people are so disgustingly impotent, they no longer need to placate them with lies of meritocracy and other false values. They can now transparently tell you “we will rule you as we wish and face no consequences”. The Epstein saga solidifies this.

Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You casually drop a lot of acronyms and references to obscure programs (here and especially in parallel comment) on the apparent assumption that everyone reading does or should be clued in to the same acronyms. I feel you do so in good faith, but I wonder where the implicit assumption comes from that the 'rest of society' ('rest' w.r..t. whatever sub-group does in fact know about these programs intimately) ought to k…

Good question! Gimme the acronyms, terms, and context you don't know and I can give some context and meaning behind them. It's easy to fall into the trap of jargon with Gov stuff.

Thanks - well what I'm actually interested in is what imaginary line can be drawn most tightly (i.e. descriptively) around a social group that would be familiar with all of the acronyms and institute names you referenced in this post's comments. Like are they all history majors? Political science majors? Given that whatever nexus this is seems to attract VVIP's of multiple countries, I think it would be interesting to understand what institutional lever in society these folks are preparing to grip.

If it helps for perspective, I (like most HN folks) am coming from an engineering background so these are broadly unfamiliar to me.

Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question! Gimme the acronyms, terms, and context you don't know and I can give some context and meaning behind them. It's easy to fall into the trap of jargon with Gov stuff.

Thanks - well what I'm actually interested in is what imaginary line can be drawn most tightly (i.e. descriptively) around a social group that would be familiar with all of the acronyms and institute names you referenced in this post's comments. Like are they all history majors? Political science majors? Given that whatever nexus this is seems to attract VVIP's of multiple countries, I think it would be interesting t…

First things first - let me level set about what the SSC is.

In federal jobs (civilian and service) in order to climb up the leadership track you need to take part in professional development courses.

A bunch of universities set up 10 month long fellowship and educational programs that would give these leadership track individuals some additional academic polish, teach them new skills, and allow them to network with private sector and other public sector leadership track individuals.

Anyone who has worked in the Federal Government

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> Given that whatever nexus this is seems to attract VVIP's of multiple countries

No, that's just an American private school undergad thing.

China's Harvard and Yale is Harvard and Yale because they were the first programs to conduct mass outreach in China after Mao was toppled.

The Gulf's Ivies (other than the Ivies) is Georgetown and CMU because both GTown and CMU did a massive outreach ans brand positioning campaign in the Gulf.

The reality is, most decisionmakers (not political appointees) in the US actually did their undergrad at state flagships like UMich, UNC, and ASU or beltway schools and only ended up at an Ivy for grad school - as is the norm in the private sector.

In countries like China or much of the Gulf, brand name matters as it helps with climbing the ladder in those countries and it gives mobility that a domestic degree couldn't provide aside from at a handful of institutions. It's much easier to get into Harvard for an undergrad than to do the Gaokao to get into Tsinghua, and a Harvard degree gives you the ability to get expedited naturalization in Japan and much of Europe.

> Like are they all history majors? Political science majors?

Primarily Engineering (especially IEOR, ECE, MechE, and Aerospace), CS, and PoliSci. I myself was a double major in CS (specialized in systems) and PoliSci and spent a minor stint in grad school and

> it would be interesting to understand what institutional lever in society these folks are preparing to grip

At least in the US, it's just standard corporate management kinda work. The reality is, governments operate the same way that corporations do - you get "big picture" types (political appointees like most cabinet members in every institution) who are the public face for an organization, but the actual decisionmaking and strategy setting is done by careerists who are managing upwards.

Institutional inertia always wins (eg. It's why Obama's red line on Syrian chemical weapons was ignored by the DoD and why Trump's interventionist policy shifted to what it is today), and the reality is a lot of conflicts that have been bubbling in the background for decades are now reaching their precipice.

I know I didn't fully answer your question but it's a fairly complex question that I'm not sure I can fully do justice in a comment.

It's best to view shifts within the USG the same way you would see shifts in a large conglomerate like Pfizer or at a large R1 research institution like a UC Berkeley.

Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#64

Half of the best engineers I know come from a random state school, from a random country, and we should work way harder than we do on finding those people. But also… the other half come from prestigious colleges, and the way you solve the first half is not by not hiring the second half.

Hiring costs time, money, and other engineers time and effort. Wasting money and time reviewing a pool with less good candidates will simply lose you business over time, as you waste more resources to obtain the same result.

And your line is thinking is how we end up with what is going on at the Pentagon, and less innovation in our industry :)

Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring costs time, money, and other engineers time and effort. Wasting money and time reviewing a pool with less good candidates will simply lose you business over time, as you waste more resources to obtain the same result.

And your line is thinking is how we end up with what is going on at the Pentagon, and less innovation in our industry :)

Ever run a company or do a lot of hiring? It’s not a line of thinking. If can cost effectively find equivalent candidates from a weaker pool, you’ll be rich selling that service.

Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hiring costs time, money, and other engineers time and effort. Wasting money and time reviewing a pool with less good candidates will simply lose you business over time, as you waste more resources to obtain the same result.

Are American universities really turning out engineers with high GPAs and relevant coursework that are unqualified? Or even create a disadvantage for their employer? I mean realistically you don’t know how good an engineer is until they get on projects and you see their work. But that’s true for Harvard too,

Yes. Ever do hiring, or run a significant interview system? I have. Us engineers thought the same way you did, but after a significant number of interviews, we went back over resumes versus interview performance to find ways to save costs/interview more per resource used, and surprisingly to us at that point quality of college was the biggest predictor. Lower quality schools simply had a less talented or trained pool, and it was significant.

Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t feel the same. My own alma mater is a niche school. It officially gives admissions pref to legacies, but unofficially depends on parents sending their kids as the school is not well known. Harvard on the other hand - people go to Harvard to become elite. That only works because they get to hobnob with princes and the like. Thats the point. The Ivy’s do a good job of admitting non-elite students. I’m glad that…

This is bordering on delusional lol. You think folks who are kids of billionaires will be fraternising with some working class kid who got in via merit? That almost never happens.

Do you have source on this? I’d love to learn more beyond our contradicting assumptions.

Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#68

Half of the best engineers I know come from a random state school, from a random country, and we should work way harder than we do on finding those people. But also… the other half come from prestigious colleges, and the way you solve the first half is not by not hiring the second half.

Hiring costs time, money, and other engineers time and effort. Wasting money and time reviewing a pool with less good candidates will simply lose you business over time, as you waste more resources to obtain the same result.

So you are saying the Ivy League pool is the one with more better candidates?

The same pool where connections, rather than merit count? Where the candidates have (probably) been coddled by their loaded parents all their lives? Where they fake disabilities in order to get affordances such as better housing, "support" animals and so on?

Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks - well what I'm actually interested in is what imaginary line can be drawn most tightly (i.e. descriptively) around a social group that would be familiar with all of the acronyms and institute names you referenced in this post's comments. Like are they all history majors? Political science majors? Given that whatever nexus this is seems to attract VVIP's of multiple countries, I think it would be interesting t…

First things first - let me level set about what the SSC is. In federal jobs (civilian and service) in order to climb up the leadership track you need to take part in professional development courses. A bunch of universities set up 10 month long fellowship and educational programs that would give these leadership track individuals some additional academic polish, teach them new skills, and allow them to network with…

OK, that's helpful thank you -

I had to Google-AI & Gemini up some possible solutions to

"TFed and CAed for SSC fellows" Gemini only got the SSC plausibly correct - is it "SSC Fellows: Refers to Senior Service College Fellows, typically senior military officers or high-level civilians (such as those in the DAU-SSCF program) who participate in prestigious leadership development and strategic research programs at various institutions" (top source: Army War College, Senior Service College fellows program)

Would you consider yourself or your career-track natsec-adjacent / military-adjacent?

Google Search AI seemed to do better on the other acronyms: TFed: This is almost certainly shorthand for "Teaching Fellow" (TF) + "Education/Training." Context: A "Teaching Fellow" supports professors in higher education by leading discussions, grading, or mentoring undergraduate students. Meaning: The person has trained or mentored Teaching Fellows. CAEd: This likely refers to a parallel, specialized form of training for the fellows. Possible meaning 1: Course Advising/Education (helping TFs with their specific courses). Possible meaning 2: Career Advising/Education (helping TFs develop their professional skills). Context: Similar to how "Didactic Fellows" are trained to mentor peers in teaching skills. SSC Fellows [I suspect it choked on this one]: These are the recipients of the training. They are likely participants in a fellowship program (e.g., Summer Service/Studies Course, Special Subject Course) in a formal education context

TF = Teaching Fellow, CA = Course Advisor?

PS Do you find it odd that someone might feel it necessary to AI-up solutions to your acronyms in an effort to better understand where you're coming from?

Re: Pentagon chief blocks officers from Ivy League schools and top universities

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was not my takeaway from the Oppenheimer movie. Or from … history. The Germans chose to extremely underinvest in their nuclear program to maintain financial and political support for their rocket program. The rocket program was so fundamentally different from the Manhattan Project it’s hard to see the Germans doing anything like it.

I mean, they definitely expelled Jewish scientists, people like Einstein and Bohr and other prominent physicists, who would have ultimately been very useful to them. Maybe their funding choices would have been different if they hadn't ousted so many researchers.

I read the Oppenheimer biography, so maybe that’s distorting things.

Oppenheimer was Jewish, but very Americanized.

Bohr was working on radar for the Nazis. Einstein had surprisingly little knowledge of nuclear physics, and famously rejected key parts of quantum physics.

The Germans had great nuclear scientists. They simply weren’t willing to spend the money it took to cold the bomb.

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