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The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#61

Post by greatgib »

I'm not to fire people usually but this long report shows that there are probably too many persons too well paid with nothing to do at Cloud flare.

Because that is a lot of energy spent too have done advance research for an UI that is basic (just a checkbox), not particularly great and common before and after cloudflare...

And a personal rant, I don't understand how they can be proud of themselves when you see the wasted time and energy supported by users to browse the pages that are being Cloudflare.

Imagine this billions of "click-wait" uselessely done by users everyday worldwide

Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#62

Post by KolmogorovComp »

meatmanek wrote: post #52
KolmogorovComp wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Git repositories also typically don't store full copies of all versions of a file that have ever existed either; they're incremental This is wrong. Git does store full copies.

git stores files as objects, which are stored as full copies, unless those objects are stored in packfiles and are deltified, in which case they're stored as deltas. https://codewords.recurse.com/issues/three/unpacking-git-pac...

Thank you for the insights.

Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#63

Post by noplacelikehome »

tempest_ wrote: post #3
noplacelikehome wrote: post #2

As a user of an unsigned Firefox fork, Turnstile has ruined a moderate portion of the Internet for me. The way Cloudflare doesn’t think twice about eroding user freedoms, for the sake of a gate that can be trivially bypassed with solvarr or similar, is deeply disturbing. They are no longer a force for good on the web.

As bad as cloudflare is there is a reason people use it. If you try and run a site that has content that LLMs want or expensive calls that require a lot of compute and can exhaust resources if they are over used the attack is relentless. It can be a full time job trying to stop people who are dedicated to scrapping the shit out of your site. Even CF doesnt even really stop it any more. The agent run browsers seem to…

Granted, but there are open source alternatives that don’t have the same obsession with meaningless digital signatures. Turnstile is just a terrible product.

Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#64

Post by hexaga »

thorum wrote: post #29
Starlevel004 wrote: post #10

> Designing a product with billions of eyeballs on it isn't just challenging — it requires a fundamentally different approach. I'm not reading this.

Their design approach wasn’t particularly unusual, so I’m not sure what that sentence means. I do miss the days when technical reports were clear and concise. This one has some interesting information, but it’s buried under a mountain of empty AI-written bloat.

It doesn't mean anything. It is just there to be there and catch low-hanging RL reward granting eyeballs.

Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#65

Post by noplacelikehome »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #38
noplacelikehome wrote: post #2

As a user of an unsigned Firefox fork, Turnstile has ruined a moderate portion of the Internet for me. The way Cloudflare doesn’t think twice about eroding user freedoms, for the sake of a gate that can be trivially bypassed with solvarr or similar, is deeply disturbing. They are no longer a force for good on the web.

How does Cloudflare know you are using the fork? Can you not just set the user agent to match firefox's (or even chrome's for that matter)

Quite likely fingerprinting detection, which is remaining firmly enabled.

Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#66

Post by sebzim4500 »

noplacelikehome wrote: post #65
sebzim4500 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Cloudflare know you are using the fork? Can you not just set the user agent to match firefox's (or even chrome's for that matter)

Quite likely fingerprinting detection, which is remaining firmly enabled.

How does that work technically? Presumably a fork of firefox is almost indistinguishable from firefox from Cloudflare's perspective?

Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#67

Post by LoganDark »

I'm very vastly in a minority here, but I can't help but feel uncomfortable that the general internet is converging towards explicity verifying humanity and addressing everyone as human. I liked it a lot better when everything was agnostic - I'd verify "I'm not a robot", I'd interact with other "users", etc... "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a ribbon dog."

Now, websites ask me to verify "I'm human", networks and services are starting to address their users as specifically "humans", and discourse is almost always about whether something or other is written by a "human" instead of just not slop.

I get that reality is what it is, but it just feels icky.

Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#68

Post by wappieslurkz »

Starlevel004 wrote: post #16
upmind wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you base the AI use on the emdash or is this an a common AI phrase (or both)?

"Not just X -- it's Y" is one of the more irritatingly common signs, especially for sentences like that one which absolutely do not need it. The Wikipedia article on detecting AI writing is a big help if you need to calibrate your sensors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signs_of_AI_writing

Thanks for the Wikipedia tip.

Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#69

Post by jgalt212 »

thorum wrote: post #29
Starlevel004 wrote: post #10

> Designing a product with billions of eyeballs on it isn't just challenging — it requires a fundamentally different approach. I'm not reading this.

Their design approach wasn’t particularly unusual, so I’m not sure what that sentence means. I do miss the days when technical reports were clear and concise. This one has some interesting information, but it’s buried under a mountain of empty AI-written bloat.

I agree this thing went on forever and seemed to have multiple summaries of the same concepts.

Re: The most-seen UI on the internet? Redesigning turnstile and challenge pages

#70

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

meatmanek wrote: post #52
KolmogorovComp wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Git repositories also typically don't store full copies of all versions of a file that have ever existed either; they're incremental This is wrong. Git does store full copies.

git stores files as objects, which are stored as full copies, unless those objects are stored in packfiles and are deltified, in which case they're stored as deltas. https://codewords.recurse.com/issues/three/unpacking-git-pac...

... which, in the context that is being discussed, is unusual.
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