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The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
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Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#62It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?
The audience shifted from tech-literate to the opposite.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#63It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?
It’s bots pushing another false narrative. You’ll notice this in anything around politics or intelligence the past 10+ years, with big booms around 2016 and 2024 “for some reason”
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#64Everything is a trade off in the world. I think that people who are anti-id ignore this but for me personally it’s harder and harder to accept the trade offs of an internet without id. AI has only accelerated this, I don’t want to live in a world where the average person unknowingly interacts with bots more than other individuals and where black market actors can sway public opinion with armies of bots. I think most…
> I think that people who are anti-id ignore this
No we do not.
>I don’t want to live in a world where the average person unknowingly interacts with bots more than other individuals and where black market actors can sway public opinion with armies of bots.
That is not the argument for identification on many places on the internet. It's not even the argument that the gov reps pushing it typically make. And why would it be. The companies that go along with all this don't want to get rid of all bots and public opinion campaigns. They make money off of many of those.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#65[dead]
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#66It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?
There's a high chance the government is attempting to influence public opinion by using botted comments, which is easier than ever to pull off.
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Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#67>Some observers present privacy-preserving age proofs involving a third party, such as the government, as a solution, but they inherit the same structural flaw: many users who are legally old enough to use a platform do not have government ID. So there is absolutely no way to change that and give out IDs from the age of 14? You can already get an ID for children in Germany https://www.germany.info/us-de/service/reise…
I strongly oppose any form of "age verification" involving uploading your ID. That's just asking for a data breach. There are options that don't involve any ID uploads whatsoever.
That's not what this user was talking about.
For example, with a German ID you can provide proof that you are older than 18 without giving up any identifying information. I mean, nobody uses this system at the moment, but it does exist and it works.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#68>Some observers present privacy-preserving age proofs involving a third party, such as the government, as a solution, but they inherit the same structural flaw: many users who are legally old enough to use a platform do not have government ID. So there is absolutely no way to change that and give out IDs from the age of 14? You can already get an ID for children in Germany https://www.germany.info/us-de/service/reise…
It costs money. Getting an ID here costs about 5% of minimum wage if you order it online + travel (you still have to travel there for the photos and pickup). It costs even more if you apply in person. You could buy 19 gallons of milk for that money (80 liters).
Really more so than money is the amount of time. Sitting at the DMV for half a day, and that is with an appointment, really sucks.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#69Age verification is very hard, because parents will give their children their unlocked account, and children will steal their parents' unlocked account. If that's criminalized (like alcohol), it will happen too often to prosecute (much more frequently than alcohol, which is rarely prosecuted anyways). I don't see a solution that isn't a fundamental culture shift. If there's a fundamental culture shift, there's an eas…
And we need a standard where websites can self-rate their own content. Then locked devices can just block all content that isn't rated "G" or whatever.
Re: The Age Verification Trap: Verifying age undermines everyone's data protection
#70It's kind of weird to me how every article on this topic here has people rushing to comment within a couple minutes with some generic "yes I too support ID checks for internet use!". Has the vibe really shifted so much among tech-literate people?
As a tech-literate person, I'm not 100% against the concept of ID if only because I think people will be more reasonable if they weren't anonymous.
This conflicts with my concerns about government crackdowns and the importance of anonymity when discussing topics that cover people who have a monopoly on violence and a tendency to use it.
So it's not entirely a black/white discussion to me.