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Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

pricepoints.health

61–70 of 91 posts

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be absurd, but do you have a workable framework that can replace it? If not, it makes zero to no difference whether it is absurd or not. It works for the society in place.

Yes. A high land value tax prevents the capture of unearned wealth by owners of land without introducing market inefficiencies or price distortions. The current arrangement demonstrably does not work for society in place, and as AI (whether in this wave of innovation or the next) increases productivity further, it will work less and less by virtue of further increasing land rents, thereby pricing out larger and large…

Huh? Last time I checked, municipalities big and small fight for every bit of investments they can get and they typically get it by offering a swath of incentives at the cost of the actual taxpayer. That high value land ends up being tax free for the actually wealthy while a schmuck like me get his bill increased and argues with otherwise well-meaning people that akshually high taxes are good for me.

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#62
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government already has and does do exactly this. Is this suppose to be a gotcha? If you have very valuable property, you should pay taxes on it. Claiming that you have ownership over land on this planet is odd, you didn't create the land and governments change overtime.

Property taxes are the most evil of taxes because they force you out onto the street if you're unable to pay them. Qualifying it with the words "very valuable" to solve the problem creates an arbitrary two-tier system that is inherently unfair. >Claiming that you have ownership over land on this planet is odd, you didn't create the land and governments change overtime. The government didn't create the land either.

Property taxes are the most just of all taxes because they are the most correlated with your consumption. Speficially, the land value tax portion of property tax (ideally, that is the whole component).

>The government didn't create the land either.

The government did create the peace and order that allows you to sleep at night on your land without having to worry about another tribe taking your land from you. Without an ability to defend it, "your" land is a tenuous label.

The government, and the rest of society, also pays a hefty price routing utilities, police, ambulances, and people around your property's borders. The more property you have, the more it costs the rest of society, not just in money, but in time.

Earned income taxes are the most evil of all taxes. Why would you have to pay for the act of providing value to society?

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#63
post #34

>property taxes Call it what it is, a perpetual rent. There's nothing funnier than a lot of people taking some absurd principles for granted when they make no sense at all, property taxes being one of them. So imagine you grind at least 30 years of your life working extra hours or two jobs to pay for an already inflated asset based on speculated prices rather than the actual cost, only to end up with that asset in a…

>There's nothing funnier than a lot of people taking some absurd principles for granted when they make no sense at all, property taxes being one of them.

>Make it make sense

The cops/judges/prisons/schools/military/etc that maintain a mostly peaceful and ordered society that prevents someone else from walking onto your property and throwing you out costs money, and costs more money every year. The more land you have, the more it costs, since more time, materials, and energy have to be spent moving around all of that surface area you have "own". Surface area is the costliest thing people consume.

Tax on the improvements on the land, as well as earned income tax are the absurd principles.

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#64
post #60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, Northwestern University (in the middle of downtown Chicago) got itself reclassified as a rural hospital in order to participate in the program. This is also a bit misleading though right? Northwestern was obliged to put 11 other hospitals and something on the order of like 150 to 200 clinic/other locations on its books largely for the purposes of access. So that rural communities across northern Illinois…

I was being a bit glib/imprecise before, but I'm specifically talking about the Northwestern Memorial campus downtown Chicago [0]. That location qualifies for 340B as a Rural Referral Center (RRC), and got itself reclassified by CMS/HRSA as rural to do so, despite being in the middle of downtown. RRCs need to meet a lower threshold of Disproportionate Share Hospital (DSH) adjustment percentage (8% vs the usual 11.75%…

AFAIK, the other hospitals/clinics under the Northwestern umbrella don't really factor into whether the downtown Northwestern Memorial campus qualifies for 340B

The money is shared at the system level. The referrals are to/from other hospitals/clinics in the system. Many of the other facilities in the system, exist because of Northwestern Memorial. This is what needs to be done to ensure access.

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#65
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities are just as bad or worse on this front. They will buy up properties with no plan simply because they have the cash to throw around and don't have to pay tax.

People say that in Berkeley but usually the specifics of the deal they are taking about are incorrect, so I generally ignore such people. For example the properties owned by the U.C. wealth fund are taxed like any other.

It does kind of suck for Albany though that something like 10% of its population lives in the untaxable University Village.

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. A high land value tax prevents the capture of unearned wealth by owners of land without introducing market inefficiencies or price distortions. The current arrangement demonstrably does not work for society in place, and as AI (whether in this wave of innovation or the next) increases productivity further, it will work less and less by virtue of further increasing land rents, thereby pricing out larger and large…

Huh? Last time I checked, municipalities big and small fight for every bit of investments they can get and they typically get it by offering a swath of incentives at the cost of the actual taxpayer. That high value land ends up being tax free for the actually wealthy while a schmuck like me get his bill increased and argues with otherwise well-meaning people that akshually high taxes are good for me.

What are you arguing here?

It seems like you're arguing that the people who own high value land should pay higher taxes than those who don't.

I agree!

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#67
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government already takes enough taxes. I am sure they can figure it out. In fact, you are already double taxed: once on income tax (which was temporary and only paid on corporate profits, not yours, but that's another story) and then taxed again on what was already taxed through GST, sales tax, VAT, you name it. >finite You think land is finite? You do realize you can fit the entire human race - both the ~8 billi…

> The government already takes enough taxes. Is the deficit a scam too? It does not take enough taxes, you are heavily subsidized and want to be subsidized further. The argument is simple. Land ownership with no property tax privatizes gains that others must subsidize. Land value comes from government infrastructure for water, electricity, roads, public transportation, which are expensive to maintain. That, and artif…

The deficit argument is a deflection. The government doesn’t have a revenue problem, it has a spending and priority problem. Canada (but also applies to other countries) runs deficits while handing out billions in corporate subsidies and mismanaging public funds consistently. Asking citizens to pay yet another layer of taxation to cover institutional inefficiency isn’t a solution, it’s a blank check with no accountability.

On land value coming from government infrastructure: that’s a partial truth dressed up as a complete argument. In Canada, most land is technically owned by the Crown, meaning you’re already leasing it under various terms depending on how title is held. So the “you’re privatizing public gains” framing already falls apart at the foundation. But let’s humor it anyway: what if I’m fully off-grid? Septic tank, solar panels, private road, self-maintained everything. Does my land value drop? No, it doesn’t, because the value is also artificially inflated by government-controlled permitting, zoning restrictions, and intentional supply suppression. The government is simultaneously the cause of inflated land value and the entity collecting taxes on that inflation. That’s not a neutral tax, that’s a racket.

On Japan: you’re conflating two separate timelines. Japan implemented its housing policies and saw prices stabilize and even decline well before its fertility crisis became the dominant economic story. The Akiya (vacant homes) problem and price normalization were underway as a direct result of policy choices, treating housing as shelter rather than an investment vehicle. The fertility decline accelerated consequences but didn’t create the policy. Meanwhile, Canada’s fertility rate is already comparable to South Korea, one of the lowest in the world, and Canadian housing prices haven’t corrected meaningfully. That alone dismantles whatever argument of “Japan only worked because of demographics”.

And here’s where it gets uncomfortable: the Canadian government has effectively admitted (look it up online, they don’t even hide it) that preserving housing values was a deliberate policy consideration in pushing back against remote work. Commercial real estate, residential landlords leveraged to the hilt, and an economy where housing represents a disproportionate share of GDP all created an incentive to force people back into urban cores. This isn’t conspiracy, it was acknowledged. When your economy is structurally dependent on a housing ponzi scheme, every policy bends toward keeping prices elevated, including taxation that forces lower-income retirees to sell, which conveniently frees up supply without crashing prices.

The honest conclusion is that property tax doesn’t exist to fund services equitably. It exists to keep the machine running for the people who benefit most from it, and that isn’t the person who spent 30 years paying off a mortgage.

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Last time I checked, municipalities big and small fight for every bit of investments they can get and they typically get it by offering a swath of incentives at the cost of the actual taxpayer. That high value land ends up being tax free for the actually wealthy while a schmuck like me get his bill increased and argues with otherwise well-meaning people that akshually high taxes are good for me.

What are you arguing here? It seems like you're arguing that the people who own high value land should pay higher taxes than those who don't. I agree!

I think that what I am saying is that, in practice, the well-intended solutions like the one that was listed above are effectively nullified as they do not seem to anticipate real world human reactions. What ends up happening is that it is only a subset of the people, who own land that pay higher taxes. The solution is to remove any and all subsidies. Governments of all levels have not exactly proven to be a reliable steward over the past few centuries..

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#69

I'll not dispute the impact on expansion and consolidation, but I will say in recent months I have seen a number of hit pieces on the 340B program, mostly bankrolled by pharma companies (not this one just calling out the trend). The exact implementation might be flawed, but if 340b is eliminated it will kill many hospitals in underserved communities. So any plan to change 340B should really also explain how to fund t…

It's incredible how far we'll bend over backwards as a country to avoid single payer healthcare. It's especially ironic that the most common argument against it is "taxes" when ...the outcome here is higher taxes.

Re: Property taxes going up? The 340B Program might be partly responsible

#70
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my metro area it irks me to see the churches with large empty parking lots empty most of the week. We have a housing shortage and they seem to have no little incentive to convert their parking to more productive use. I agree, the whole ruse that these 501s meaningfully does charitable work for our communities is laughable and their tax exemption should be revoked, at least with regard to land taxes.

There are almost no places where a housing shortage is due to a lack of land. Housing shortages have all sorts of reasons, from constructions cost, to zoning, to restrictions on what can be built, but it's virtually never a lack of land. And parking is a productive use - they have services once a week, and parking means people can come to the service. That's the definition of productive use. Something does not need t…

Why should churches get great real estate in central locations but not housing? If people only come to church once a week, surely they can spend the extra time driving further.
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