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Russia's economy has entered the death zone

economist.com

61–70 of 245 posts

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia doesn’t have any other choice, than to continue. Same applies for the West.

Russia could end the war today if it wanted to.

Same for the West.

If they do, they loose. That sets their position in the world.

Who’d fear them? They can’t even win over a country which is much smaller and weaker than they are.

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#62
post #39
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is rich enough to support Ukraine for a very long time. During that time it is likely that Ukraine develops better and better weapons. This requires Russian army to improve as well. It's not clear how the Russian army will improve when the economy declines.

EU may be “rich enough” to support Ukraine forever, doesn’t mean it will or should do it.

The EU, well NATO has the problem what Russia will do when it is no longer at war with Ukraine. There is also the question what the US would if Russia attacks a NATO country.

So European NATO countries basically need to keep supporting Ukraine while they try to becomes militarily independent of the US.

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#63
post #27
post #3

As a Ukrainian at war since day 1 – I don't buy it. They will sell their gas at discount to China until the very end. Military force is the only way to get them to the death zone.

As a strong supporter of Ukraine, I would say ultimately wars are won or lost by economic forces (the side that can't afford it any more loses). That's how the USSR lost the Cold War, and all I can hope is that all of Europe really has your back in this one.

But that is historically not quite true.

World War 2 was not won due to the economy. And while it is true that the USSR "lost" the Cold War, they actually spent too much and entered a recurring debt from which they could no longer get out. There was no direct war here, which is different to e. g. world war 2 (at the least USA versus Germany). USSR and USA only fought some proxy wars.

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#65
post #17
post #7

Déjà vu … Since Crimea Invasion Russia’s Economy Is On the Brink of Collapse" – CNN Business, December 2014. "The End of the Putin Era? Russia’s Economy Is Tanking" – Newsweek, December 2014. "Russia Heading for Economic 'Colossal Collapse'" – BBC News (quoting Alexei Kudrin), December 2014. "How the Oil Price Collapse Could Topple Putin" – The Guardian, 2015. "Russia’s Economy Is a Mess" – The Atlantic, February 201…

Do you keep a collection of these? What for?

I'm actually in awe. I wish I had lists like these for other "hot-button" issues where the common narrative is that things are constantly on the brink of some kind of catastrophe or resolution. Really puts things into perspective.

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#66
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s very difficult to utterly destroy a country’s military force, particularly a country as huge as Russia, which has also a sizeable population. Ukraine cannot do it on its own and I see no appetite from anybody else to do it, so I think it is unlikely to happen. Of course, it is also very difficult to utterly destroy a country’s economic power. Unfortunately, in Russia’s case, they have the raw materials and a pop…

That's misunderstanding the model of actors. "Russia" isn't "Putin". "Countries" act in the best interests of their power structure, not their leaders. Basically: the way this ends is when the collective will of the power centers (generally the armed forces, though not always) decide that they'll be wealthier and happier with Putin gone than by following more orders. And obviously that's an unstable/unpredictable equ…

> That's misunderstanding the model of actors. "Russia" isn't "Putin". "Countries" act in the best interests of their power structure, not their leaders.

No, I am not misunderstanding. For all intents and purposes, at the moment Putin’s will is Russia’s will. And it looks like he knows his weaknesses within the country and is willing to let marginal populations bear the weight of his ambitions while keeping his power base comfortable enough. Of course he might end up like Stalin, at which point who knows? But it might not be much better for Ukraine, and in the meantime Putin keeps giving the orders.

> Basically: the way this ends is when the collective will of the power centers (generally the armed forces, though not always) decide that they'll be wealthier and happier with Putin gone than by following more orders.

He can get most soldiers rich enough for this to drag on for quite a long time. They probably would be happier elsewhere, but they don’t have a say. The generals is another problem, but so far Putin is quite effective at finding loyal ones.

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#67

How does Russia have $73 billion dollars worth of debt. Who is buying Russian treasuries? Also how did the GDP grow by 1% in 2025, is that a function of the internal Defence spending activity?

I think national growth minus growth in the military sector was negative last year.

It looks like Russian bonds are largely bought by Middle Eastern based hedge funds and family funds or trusts.

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#68
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe you don’t understand what debt actually is.

Say I produce furniture. I borrow from you. I now have debt. I sell furniture. Now I can pay you back some part of it (up to 100%). You (and other parties) see that I'm quite good at what I do and my products sells. I now can borrow from you and other parties again to produce more (and possibly diversify my business). I sell more, I open new businesses etc. I pay you and other parties back. And borrow again. I can an…

I didn’t say debt is bad in general.

I say the current amount of debt and the promise of we have unlimited money is what’s wrong.

Re: Russia's economy has entered the death zone

#69
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you do not quite understand what debt is. Just like most people in our beloved Russia.

Or maybe you don’t understand what debt actually is.

Right, it must be biggest country in the world with the economy size of Italy, ostracized by everyone except other outcasts, fully dependent on selling cheap carbon fuel under market rates, and that struggles to occupy Donbass for 12 years.
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