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Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

nytimes.com

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Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#61

Post by toomuchtodo »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #32
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizens can choose to prioritize quality of life over maximizing housing stock to increase the domestic population. “We’re all full up.” It is their country after all, it is their choice. Those who want in are not stakeholders nor have a vote.

It's amazing how quickly globalists were able to get the ideological left to switch from having riots protesting against globalism to declaring it racist to have any anti-globalist thoughts. Even more amazing are the intellectual knots they'll tie themselves up into when explaining how this came to be. The participants of the Battle of Seattle in 1999 now would be considered Nazis.

The only constant is change.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#62

Post by KellyCriterion »

lukan wrote: post #52
KellyCriterion wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please send name of city and district? Maybe in eastern germany, yes; Chemnitz is cheap. But most cities are by far not that cheap.

Yes, most cities are not cheap, but I am also not a city person so the place is in a remote village, but well connected. And no, not naming that concrete place as I really like to move there (again), but it is in western saxony so not that far from chemnitz (a town I don't like so much, the job itself is in a small town).

Ah, yes, as guessed: The region there is quite cheap - in Chemnitz there was a 2 room apartment for 350 EUR (including heating), fully furnished, at the city/castle pond: Excellent price, but the disctrict was not that great.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#63

Post by Herring »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #44
Herring wrote: post #20

Western societies are aging. If you don't take in immigrants (which is basically the government becoming the far right), you're on a timer. Your economy will slow, insecurity will rise, and the far right will surge anyway. It's happening to Japan. As far as I can tell, the problem is inequality leading to widespread insecurity because the rich buy up housing. The right wing has no solutions. What you probably need is…

"Line must go up" is such a death wish and I don't see how people who consider themselves "green" can also preach the line must go up mantra. Yes, there are consequences from a shrinking population. There are also consequences from a growing one, especially one that is cultivated with no regard to anything other than maximizing the absolute number. But I guess if you're one of the people who can benefit from the line…

You won't get anywhere if your solution to climate change is widespread poverty and insecurity. In fact from what I can tell the more secure societies are more likely to push green policies (comparing Europe vs US/China). Intuitively I have more capacity to entertain vegetarianism if I'm not working 80hrs per week. Anyway the rich are emitting way more carbon than everyone else so taxing them should be the first priority, not austerity.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#64

Post by KellyCriterion »

dieortin wrote: post #51
KellyCriterion wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is the best munitioned country on earth, because: After military service, most people keep their guns and are forced to yearly practicing (or loosing the gun) etc. - they are battle-ready every time. Plus: they are the only(!) country on earth who could offer bunker protection to 95%+ of society in case of war.

They don’t keep the ammo though, so it’s quite funny to call it the “best munitioned country”. Even if you only considered the guns, your claim seems to be false: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...

This was slightly misworded: They keep the gun, not the amo - the amo you have to buy on your yearly-forced practice shooting.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#65

Post by lukan »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #57
KellyCriterion wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please send name of city and district? Maybe in eastern germany, yes; Chemnitz is cheap. But most cities are by far not that cheap.

[flagged]

Commenting about downvotes usually does not help, but maybe they came because you said rents in cities are higher while I spoke of a place outside cities?

Don't take it too serious would be my advice, downvotes also sometimes happen by accident with a big thump on touchscreen.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#66

Post by ahtihn »

rimbo789 wrote: post #42

Typical right wing popularism to divide people and ignore the fact they have no actual solutions. Racism is bad people. This will hurt people living in Switzerland today and those who end up there in the future.

Most of the immigration is French, German, Italian.

This isn't about racism. This is about unchecked immigration putting a strain on infrastructure and people feeling like they're losing their identity.

This initiative is stupid but the underlying problem is real: we're letting in too many people too fast.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#67

Post by poly2it »

hmokiguess wrote: post #39

I support that. If you tried doing the inverse, for example, migrate to an Islamic country and bring over Christianity there, you would not be welcomed at all. I’m an expat and one thing I’ve learned is to integrate myself with the culture of the country that adopted me, I believe this shows respect and that I am aligned with its values and principles.

Do you truly believe Switzerland is at risk of an Islamic invasion? How do people on a platform such as HN fall for such obviously falsifiable statements? The initiative is obviously part of the global right-wing populist trend. Countries in the EU are dependent on immigration for maintaining their economies and public infrastructure as the population ages. I'm not Swiss, but the current government in Sweden has been going through with similar anti-criminal/anti-bad-immigrant (racist) politics and rethoric for four years now. As a result, there are now elderly care centers in parts of the country where 25% of all personnel have been expelled, children and even babies are taken back to their "home countries" without their parents and major domestic industry organisations are turning on the politicians they have fostered as the detrimental economic policies are killing low-wage industries in Sweden.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#68

Post by KellyCriterion »

alephnerd wrote: post #14
KellyCriterion wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss comp advantage started in WWII when they were used to exchange Nazis gold into other currencies - this gave them a topstart for the economic period after the war since they were perfectly connected globally and they understood to scale & keep this advantage for long time. Maybe its fading a little bit nowadays

Sure in finance (and even then it has been overshadowed by London, Frankfurt, and Amsterdam by the 2000s), but not really in innovation industries like the Life Sciences - which has historically been Switzerland's strongest niche and a major reason for Switzerland's modern success. This was largely due to the success of Biogen in the 1980s which helped link American biopharma IP with the Swiss ecosystem along with a…

Some say Swiss was always "naturally lucky" due its location in the "blue banana" region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Banana

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#69

Post by KellyCriterion »

poly2it wrote: post #67
hmokiguess wrote: post #39

I support that. If you tried doing the inverse, for example, migrate to an Islamic country and bring over Christianity there, you would not be welcomed at all. I’m an expat and one thing I’ve learned is to integrate myself with the culture of the country that adopted me, I believe this shows respect and that I am aligned with its values and principles.

Do you truly believe Switzerland is at risk of an Islamic invasion? How do people on a platform such as HN fall for such obviously falsifiable statements? The initiative is obviously part of the global right-wing populist trend. Countries in the EU are dependent on immigration for maintaining their economies and public infrastructure as the population ages. I'm not Swiss, but the current government in Sweden has been…

Curious: Do you live in Switzerland in 2025 / 2026?

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#70

Post by toshinoriyagi »

FranklinJabar wrote: post #25
KellyCriterion wrote: post #7

Why shouldnt they be allowed to make a cap at 10M?

Switzerland is a state. Talking about what they're "allowed" to do is just meaningless. But, it does seem like a terrible place to live. I fear for the immigrants who form the basis of the economy.

I don't think immigrants make up the basis of the Swiss economy. Looking at their demographic data[1], it was pretty strongly European dominated for a very long time, and is still ~80% European.

When people talk about immigrants in this context, I don't think they mean people from the US, but lower socioeconomic asylum-seekers and refugees etc. from the middle-east.

It definitely seems their economy was built on European labor, which I believe the vast majority of European countries were.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Switzerland#Pe...

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