Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Programmer's Loss of Identity

ratfactor.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 184 posts

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#61

Post by jbstack »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #49

I love programming, but the idea of hanging out with and chatting with other programmers as a regular part of my social life leaves me cold. I'm happy to be a part of online conversations about code and hardware and design, but away from the computer ... not really. I'd rather be talking about food, or hiking or travelling or culture or relationships. There have been very few people I've ever met in person that I rea…

Why are they mutually exclusive? Can't you hang out with and chat with other programmers ... about food, hiking, travelling, culture, or relationships? In the same way that lawyers don't have to talk about law, and doctors don't have to talk about medicine when they hang out. When I think about my friendships, it's rare that we ever spend any significant amount of time talking about our work.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#62

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

Getting older is strange.

I never wanted to "grow out" of programming, but it feels like that's what I'm doing. I'm leaning into activism and real-life stuff, and programming is only a tool, which is sometimes useful and sometimes not.

I was always a "Love of the game" programmer. I went to a business incubator recently and saw two guys vibe-coding with Claude. One was using speech dictation. That's crazy to me. Programming should happen at a keyboard.

I have my excuses - Claude will eventually cost more. AI that runs on Someone Else's Computer is not free software, and it will never respect you. The keyboard is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age. These excuses are sort-of true and sort-of pointless.

Programming is a means to an end. I guess when the chips are down, most people program to make money, which means working for disgusting people who have so much money that they can change the course of history for the worse.

I programmed for fun, and that meant lots of programming. Now I want to program for justice, and that will mean less programming and more grass-touching.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#63

Post by SecretDreams »

jbstack wrote: post #61
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #49

I love programming, but the idea of hanging out with and chatting with other programmers as a regular part of my social life leaves me cold. I'm happy to be a part of online conversations about code and hardware and design, but away from the computer ... not really. I'd rather be talking about food, or hiking or travelling or culture or relationships. There have been very few people I've ever met in person that I rea…

Why are they mutually exclusive? Can't you hang out with and chat with other programmers ... about food, hiking, travelling, culture, or relationships? In the same way that lawyers don't have to talk about law, and doctors don't have to talk about medicine when they hang out. When I think about my friendships, it's rare that we ever spend any significant amount of time talking about our work.

There are some people that gravitate towards making friends at work and spending their non work lives with them and there are those that prefer the opposite.

I am friendly with my coworkers and might occasionally spend time with them outside of work, but, for the most part, all my closest friendships are not from work and not in the same profession (outside of the few I picked up in school).

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#64

Post by aleph_minus_one »

visarga wrote: post #34
smartmic wrote: post #29

> For the first time in my life, I’m suddenly wary of meeting other "computer programmers" in the wild. I feel like there’s a decent chance we won’t actually have much in common, let alone values or morality. Maybe the social group the author is referring to has split up (forked)? For example, I wouldn't call anyone producing vibe coded AI stuff a "programmer". That noun will be reserved for the original group.

> I wouldn't call anyone producing vibe coded AI stuff a "programmer" How about "software developer"?

> > I wouldn't call anyone producing vibe coded AI stuff a "programmer"

> How about "software developer"?

Rather: AI prompter. :-)

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#65

Post by aleph_minus_one »

pjmlp wrote: post #60
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So those of us that fight against becoming managers, it was for love of programming and the related technical details, as it usually comes with a payment and career ceiling. I think quite a lot of these programmers don't fight against becoming a manager, but it's rather that they don't have traits (character traits, demeanour, low on dark triad traits (it is known that the selection process and work reality for man…

In many career paths, after senior developer there are only management roles. Doesn't matter what traits they have, the only way up, to get that raise, additional benefits, or not being thrown into some improvement program is to accept becoming a manager in one of its various forms, or go elsewhere where hopefully there is a more sane career path.

> Doesn't matter what traits they have, the only way up, to get that raise, additional benefits, or not being thrown into some improvement program is to accept becoming a manager in one of its various forms

You did not get my point: it is not about non-acceptance of becoming a manager, but rather about having traits that commonly imply that "those in power" won't select you for becoming a manager.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#67

Post by kuboble »

What resonates the most with me in the article is this quote

> I was so naïve that I thought progress could only go one direction, because that’s all I’d ever known.

As kids growing up in Eastern Europe in the 80s and 90s the world felt like its getting better every year. More peace, fewer borders, more opportunities, better technology.

Everything was getting better every year and we took it for granted that this is a law of nature.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#68

Post by horns4lyfe »

softwaredoug wrote: post #13

> Which is to say that the pleasure I get from programming is mostly about learning the underlying truths about computation and applying what I’ve learned. Always improving the craft. This, to me, is the practice of programming. I guess when you get to a certain age (I'm 45) I stop caring whether something like this has social value. I enjoy it anyways. Wanting to know how things work always brings me back. I don't c…

It’s always been a low-status profession, the pay is just better now

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#69

Post by slashdev »

iberator wrote: post #48
softwaredoug wrote: post #13

> Which is to say that the pleasure I get from programming is mostly about learning the underlying truths about computation and applying what I’ve learned. Always improving the craft. This, to me, is the practice of programming. I guess when you get to a certain age (I'm 45) I stop caring whether something like this has social value. I enjoy it anyways. Wanting to know how things work always brings me back. I don't c…

I lost my job as a programmer and I think it's over for me. No, you will not hack the device drivers in the basement but you're gonna be flipping burgers and out of cash or energy for anything else. Worst thing: you never gonna even be good at flipping burgers without experience or young age... Once you are out of the field, and your money is gone: suddenly you are useless, old trash. No one even wants to employ ex p…

If you believe that, it could be true.

On the other hand there are lots of companies hiring still, so you could also keep working as a software engineer, if that's what you're good at.

The job has changed a lot though, it's not about writing code by hand anymore.

Re: A Programmer's Loss of Identity

#70

Post by nunez »

borzi wrote: post #5

I can't relate to this anymore and honestly after embracing vibe coding, I'm sick of reading posts like this (and I don't want to personally attack the write who I sympathize with to some degree). Being able to code doesn't make you better than the "plebs" who are creating massive value with a vibe coded tool. I also remember the brief moment of disbelief when I noticed AI could really code better than me, until I re…

it's not about "better"

it's about enjoyment

someone else on here analogized this perfectly: coding with AI is like solving a solved puzzle. you engage other neural pathways to get the result you want, but "the thing" that made me love doing this for work is completely removed.

Post reply on HN