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Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

architectsjournal.co.uk

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Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#61

Post by keiferski »

thomasfl wrote: post #44

Some brutalist architecture may be preserved, as a warning for future generations about the danger of mixing politics, ideology and architecture. I am the founder of the architectural uprising non-profit in Norway. The primary goal of architecture is in my view to increase peoples quality of life and to ensure social, economic and environmentally sustainability for future generations. Both the Southbank center and th…

Have you been to the barbican? I haven’t been in an apartment myself, but I have been in the outdoor areas multiple times.

It’s very cool, and feels very well designed. It’s also consistently in demand as a place to live. So I’m not sure why you think it hasn’t increased the residents’ quality of life.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#62

Post by NedF »

thomasfl wrote: post #44

Some brutalist architecture may be preserved, as a warning for future generations about the danger of mixing politics, ideology and architecture. I am the founder of the architectural uprising non-profit in Norway. The primary goal of architecture is in my view to increase peoples quality of life and to ensure social, economic and environmentally sustainability for future generations. Both the Southbank center and th…

[dead]

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#63

Post by the_other »

keiferski wrote: post #61
thomasfl wrote: post #44

Some brutalist architecture may be preserved, as a warning for future generations about the danger of mixing politics, ideology and architecture. I am the founder of the architectural uprising non-profit in Norway. The primary goal of architecture is in my view to increase peoples quality of life and to ensure social, economic and environmentally sustainability for future generations. Both the Southbank center and th…

Have you been to the barbican? I haven’t been in an apartment myself, but I have been in the outdoor areas multiple times. It’s very cool, and feels very well designed. It’s also consistently in demand as a place to live. So I’m not sure why you think it hasn’t increased the residents’ quality of life.

I've visited a flat/appartment in one of the Barbican towers. It was comfy, pleasant. The lifts and hallways were well maintained, well lit, generous dimensions (compared with many London apartment blocks I've seen). It felt like a "good" tower block, rather than a "bad" one.

The arts complex is amazing (slightly confusing, but very functional and fairly pleasant to be inside). The outside spaces create a buzzy calm.

I think it's an excellent complex.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#64

Post by the_other »

thomasfl wrote: post #44

Some brutalist architecture may be preserved, as a warning for future generations about the danger of mixing politics, ideology and architecture. I am the founder of the architectural uprising non-profit in Norway. The primary goal of architecture is in my view to increase peoples quality of life and to ensure social, economic and environmentally sustainability for future generations. Both the Southbank center and th…

Your two opening paragraphs seem opposed to one another.

> Some brutalist architecture may be preserved, as a warning for future generations about the danger of mixing politics, ideology and architecture.

> I am the founder of the architectural uprising non-profit in Norway. The primary goal of architecture is in my view to increase peoples quality of life and to ensure social, economic and environmentally sustainability for future generations.

Can you expand on the "dangers" expressed in the buildings, and how your foundation attempts to mitigate those dangers?

Also:

> Now lets face the fact that most brutalists experiments over the last 80 years has failed miserably.

Yeah, there are a lot of failures, but you've picked on two structures which are broadly successful which is diminishing your point somewhat.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#65

Post by 627467 »

thomasfl wrote: post #44

Some brutalist architecture may be preserved, as a warning for future generations about the danger of mixing politics, ideology and architecture. I am the founder of the architectural uprising non-profit in Norway. The primary goal of architecture is in my view to increase peoples quality of life and to ensure social, economic and environmentally sustainability for future generations. Both the Southbank center and th…

> danger of mixing politics, ideology and architecture.

Like there's architecture that doesn't mix politics and/ideology? I sense conservatism in your comment which is a perspective/ideology (which i share btw). Ultimately I feel that taste drives a lot of these takes, not ideology or politics.

I've enjoyed the public areas of the barbican many many times - my only complain (its been many years I haven't been) is it doesn't have a lot of people sharing that space. You'll see that as argument that many people dont share my taste or the actual ideology/politics that led to that style is rejected by the public. I say: the barbican sits in the middle of one of the most depopulated (as in residents not office workers) of London. The areas around it are among the most expensive real estate in London. We all know how many European capitals and London in particular have become a piggy bank for the wealthy so I'd argue most people just cant afford to experience the barbican as well and as often for being pushed out

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#66

Post by louthy »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #48
AJRF wrote: post #25

Is there something wrong with me that I love Brutalist buildings? The Barbican in London is my favourite building and it feels so futuristic to me for some reason.

Some buildings can be nice. But the real crime with brutalism was the stuff that got demolished to make room for it. Also, a lot of brutalist buildings have not aged well. Concrete gets ugly after a few decades. And there's also the notion that a lot of brutalist architecture that isn't all that beautiful. There are some counter examples of course. But there are also plenty of really nasty urban areas that aren't exa…

> But the real crime with brutalism was the stuff that got demolished to make room for it

The Barbican was a literal bomb site after the war [1]. Blame Hitler, not urban planning.

[1] https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/archive/collecti...

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#67

Post by cbeach »

keiferski wrote: post #61
thomasfl wrote: post #44

Some brutalist architecture may be preserved, as a warning for future generations about the danger of mixing politics, ideology and architecture. I am the founder of the architectural uprising non-profit in Norway. The primary goal of architecture is in my view to increase peoples quality of life and to ensure social, economic and environmentally sustainability for future generations. Both the Southbank center and th…

Have you been to the barbican? I haven’t been in an apartment myself, but I have been in the outdoor areas multiple times. It’s very cool, and feels very well designed. It’s also consistently in demand as a place to live. So I’m not sure why you think it hasn’t increased the residents’ quality of life.

I used to work next door to the Barbican and occasionally visit the site on my lunch breaks.

The old decaying concrete, monolithic construction, dark alleys, stagnant algae-filled lakes, dirty windows around a tropical plant space, pretentious art installations - it was all quite interesting to my morbid curiosity. But I always left the Barbican feeling lonely and bleak.

I cannot imagine the misery of living in that environment and having it seep into your soul.

I moved out of London, and live in the countryside now. There is something transcendent about being surrounded by natural beauty, and being far, far away from urban over-development.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#68

Post by davidivadavid »

cbeach wrote: post #67
keiferski wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been to the barbican? I haven’t been in an apartment myself, but I have been in the outdoor areas multiple times. It’s very cool, and feels very well designed. It’s also consistently in demand as a place to live. So I’m not sure why you think it hasn’t increased the residents’ quality of life.

I used to work next door to the Barbican and occasionally visit the site on my lunch breaks. The old decaying concrete, monolithic construction, dark alleys, stagnant algae-filled lakes, dirty windows around a tropical plant space, pretentious art installations - it was all quite interesting to my morbid curiosity. But I always left the Barbican feeling lonely and bleak. I cannot imagine the misery of living in that…

Looking at Youtube videos of Barbican apartment visits for 15 minutes will tell you this poster is projecting quite a bit.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#69

Post by cbeach »

eigenspace wrote: post #59
MLR wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an odd thing, brutalism is almost universally hated by the general public but there's a seemingly endless stream of people who are willing to wax lyrical about why stained concrete blocks are actually the pinnacle of architecture.

It sometimes feels like a psy-op to read through all these gushingly positive comments, when you know how the average person feels about it. I get that it's not actually something nefarious, but it really does suck that the people who like this garbage are so loud about it that it gets shoved down the rest of the public's throats. I think the extremely public, visible, every-dat nature of architecture gives it certai…

> It sometimes feels like a psy-op to read through all these gushingly positive comments, when you know how the average person feels about it.

Yes, exactly!

A common theme among these weird ideological group-thinks is political undertones.

> "Today, criticism on brutalism and modernism is mostly voiced by those on the far-right side of the political spectrum, precisely because of the association between modernism and the post-war welfare state"

https://www.dezeen.com/2021/10/21/brutalist-buildings-right-...

Yup - if you don't like Soviet-style dense urban monoliths, you're "far right" apparently.

Re: Brutalist Southbank Centre Listed

#70

Post by MrSkelter »

louthy wrote: post #5

It’s a magnificent space. If you just judge it purely on the concrete you may have a different opinion, but if you’re there to consume the various forms of art performed on the Southbank, then the space really comes alive. I’m glad it’s listed. I happen to love brutalist architecture, but in the uk it can sometimes not work (grey rainy days don’t bring out the best of the concrete). However, I think in this case it r…

Brutalism was invented in the UK and should be honored by its birthplace.
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