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Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

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Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#61
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> software companies shouldnt trade on a P/E of 300 You are playing pretty fast and loose with your definition of a "software company" when you include Amazon and NVIDIA in your list. Amazon is many things but it is not a "software company" and neither is "NVIDIA".

50% of amazon operating profit is from AWS. NVIDIA's GPUs aren't really that much better than AMD if it weren't for CUDA. Software company is a pretty good description for both.

AWS is not a software company either, it is a capital intensive computing infrastructure company. NVIDIA as well is a capital intensive computer hardware company.

Just because software plays a role, doesn't make them software companies. It is like saying all companies are "electrical companies" because they require electricity to operate.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#62
post #59
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on the business. People are not going to stop eating so small margins in the grocery business isn't a negative - the revenue is mostly recurring and recession proof (some people might switch from buying meat to rice+beans, but other people are going to stop eating out and so it balances).

Just because people need a grocery store doesn't mean that you're guaranteed to make money running one. multiplying huge revenue by a small percentage to get a big positive number to multiplying huge revenue by a small negative percentage to get a big negative number So that's how Kroger managed to lose billions over the last couple of quarters, or how small changes in shoplifting/shrinkage based on store makeup can…

https://massmarketretailers.com/kroger-delivers-solid-quarte...

They didn't lose money because of their grocery operations. Those margins have increased slightly.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The margins on tech/cloud are just so astronomically higher than retail. Places like Walmart or Costco are fighting for IMO AWS should be spun out as a separate company.

If they were separate businesses it would make no sense to merge them. It would be like Microsoft buying Walmart.

Don't give them ideas.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found it confusing how run of the mill SaaS trades at multiples assuming decades of doing business. The amount of change in software businesses has been massive and being able to run a successful software business even for 15 years from 2010-2025 requires a great deal of strategy and foresight and more likely than not that's not enough. Considering how these dynamics have been accelerating as technology a…

Investor analyst looks at earnings growth and determines Customer Acquisition Cost (CAC) and Customer Acquisition Cost Payback Period (CACPP). They determine that ABC Software Corporation has no marginal manufacturing cost because it makes software that it sells online, so if it invested 90% of its profit margin into marketing it could grow its ARR by 140% a year. Then they extrapolate that for 30 years and say ok th…

Hes not admitting his crimes, hes bragging!

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50% of amazon operating profit is from AWS. NVIDIA's GPUs aren't really that much better than AMD if it weren't for CUDA. Software company is a pretty good description for both.

AWS is not a software company either, it is a capital intensive computing infrastructure company. NVIDIA as well is a capital intensive computer hardware company. Just because software plays a role, doesn't make them software companies. It is like saying all companies are "electrical companies" because they require electricity to operate.

Is a seal a sea creature or a land dweller? Well it eats at sea.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard the same about Nvidia, quite a few times, but have never really understood it. I don’t suppose you know a good “for dummies” explanation of why CUDA is such an insurmountable moat for them? Like, what is it about that software that AMD can’t produce for their own hardware, or for a most important subset, with these $1T market stakes?

> I don’t suppose you know a good “for dummies” explanation of why CUDA is such an insurmountable moat for them? Theoretically the moat isn’t insurmountable and AMD has made some inroads thanks to the open source community but in practice a generic CUDA layer requires a ton of R&D that AMD hasn’t been able to afford since the ATI acquisition. It’s been fighting for its existence for most of that time and just never h…

Maybe nobody has reputably released non-fortran versions but they probably exist.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard the same about Nvidia, quite a few times, but have never really understood it. I don’t suppose you know a good “for dummies” explanation of why CUDA is such an insurmountable moat for them? Like, what is it about that software that AMD can’t produce for their own hardware, or for a most important subset, with these $1T market stakes?

the first problem is a whole generation of people learned to code ai applications by fiddling around with the gpu in their gaming pc 10 years ago. so an entire generation of talent grew up with cuda the second problem is that so many libraries and existing software is cuda only. even some obscure hardware stuff. i discovered the hard way that some AMD thinkpads dont support thunderbolt transfer speeds on their usb-c…

>its literally cheaper to make an entire new chipset than it is to fix AMd

Is it? Or does AMD expect to make a profit and it's cheaper to make your own chips at cost?

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS is not a software company either, it is a capital intensive computing infrastructure company. NVIDIA as well is a capital intensive computer hardware company. Just because software plays a role, doesn't make them software companies. It is like saying all companies are "electrical companies" because they require electricity to operate.

Is a seal a sea creature or a land dweller? Well it eats at sea.

Argh, we first ignored the fact that most of its income comes from being the lead e-commerce retailer to just focus on AWS and then we need to discount the fact that the majority of AWS is CapEx towards hardware / datacenter (expected CapEx this coming year is $200B), to just leave the software. Whatever.

Re: Amazon plunge continues $1T wipeout as AI bubble fears ignite sell-off

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50% of amazon operating profit is from AWS. NVIDIA's GPUs aren't really that much better than AMD if it weren't for CUDA. Software company is a pretty good description for both.

I’ve heard the same about Nvidia, quite a few times, but have never really understood it. I don’t suppose you know a good “for dummies” explanation of why CUDA is such an insurmountable moat for them? Like, what is it about that software that AMD can’t produce for their own hardware, or for a most important subset, with these $1T market stakes?

CUDA is a GPGPU software layer that is very mature, and integrates with C,C++, Python, Fortran very well. AMD just never really got the same quality of GPGPU software in the last 20 years. 99% of scientific computing that uses GPUs (which is a lot since they are so much faster than CPUs for linear algebra) have gone to Nvidia because of this. All of the big AI libraries (Tensor Flow, PyTorch) basically ended up writing around CUDA, so they just didn't write things for AMD. Plus if you go and look at a job for signal processing or whatever at say Lockheed Martin or Raytheon, they specific CUDA.
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