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221 Cannon is Not For Sale

fredbenenson.com

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Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#61

Post by pdonis »

weinzierl wrote: post #42
dcrazy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry because that is not an enumerated power of the federal government. The individual states have sovereignty over their own land and each has its own system for land registration. The article you linked to even names several states that have a partial Torrens title system. The claim that the title insurance industry is the reason for lack of adoption of Torrens t…

"No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry [..]" Fascinating, how is ownership established if there is no single source of truth? I feel the answer to this is also crucial to understanding OP. It could be a minor annoyance or the real possibility to lose your land.

> how is ownership established if there is no single source of truth?

There is: the county clerk in the county where the land is located.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#62

Post by some_random »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #45

> He gave me the standard line: 2-3 weeks if I hear from anyone. > I never heard from anyone. What is the FBI doing if they're not working on cases like this or domestic terrorism/mass shootings? We continue to have both classes of crimes in droves.

They're busy planning domestic terrorism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_pl...), entrapping the mentally ill (https://archive.vn/riFSI), etc.

In all seriousness, this is probably an international crime and they just do not have the resources to chase them all down.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#63

Post by skissane »

dcrazy wrote: post #34
jjmarr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike most common law jurisdictions, the United States doesn't have a central land registry due to lobbying from the title insurance industry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrens_title#United_States

No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry because that is not an enumerated power of the federal government. The individual states have sovereignty over their own land and each has its own system for land registration. The article you linked to even names several states that have a partial Torrens title system. The claim that the title insurance industry is the reason for lack of adoption of Torrens t…

> No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry because that is not an enumerated power of the federal government.

I think you misunderstood the post you were replying to. Torrens title was invented in Australia. Just like in the US, land titles are a state responsibility in Australia not a federal one. But each state has a central statewide land registry which is the authoritative source of truth for land ownership. By contrast, US states hold land title records in a decentralised way (at the local government level not the state level), and those records aren’t legally decisive.

Most common law jurisdictions have centralised land titles, but often centralised at one level below the national government.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#64

Post by peaseagee »

cmiles74 wrote: post #50
dcrazy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry because that is not an enumerated power of the federal government. The individual states have sovereignty over their own land and each has its own system for land registration. The article you linked to even names several states that have a partial Torrens title system. The claim that the title insurance industry is the reason for lack of adoption of Torrens t…

The federal government never enumerated the power to manage a national credit agency and yet we have several.

The federal government doesn't manage any national credit agencies.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#65

Post by stackskipton »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #45

> He gave me the standard line: 2-3 weeks if I hear from anyone. > I never heard from anyone. What is the FBI doing if they're not working on cases like this or domestic terrorism/mass shootings? We continue to have both classes of crimes in droves.

Because a lot of scammers are overseas in countries that either won't extradite and/or cooperate with investigators. Why focus on those cases when no one will face justice?

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#66

Post by anjel »

wrs wrote: post #30
nine_k wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why a commercial entity that registers ownership / titles for free, and bills for checking, did not spring up. Clearly there is moneyed demand for certainty about title rights, and if you can provide certainty (because the last deal was registered with you), it may be a more desirable product than mere insurance.

It’s turtles all the way down, though — how do you know that last deal had clear title? At some point you’re going to want insurance anyway. In any case, the US system is already that the government records ownership (not for free, but for a small recording fee) and the title company charges for checking, and for insurance in case they get it wrong. As just one example of how it can go wrong, here in Seattle it’s com…

The trick with title theft is they target property not closely watched as the author noted, but also worth roughly the legal costs the rightful owner will incur undoing the fradulent transfer.

Prison is crime university and ID theft and related crimes are high yield low risk crimes.

The system doesn't care and such title thefts have been increasing for 15-20 years already

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#67

Post by parsimo2010 »

weinzierl wrote: post #42
dcrazy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry because that is not an enumerated power of the federal government. The individual states have sovereignty over their own land and each has its own system for land registration. The article you linked to even names several states that have a partial Torrens title system. The claim that the title insurance industry is the reason for lack of adoption of Torrens t…

"No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry [..]" Fascinating, how is ownership established if there is no single source of truth? I feel the answer to this is also crucial to understanding OP. It could be a minor annoyance or the real possibility to lose your land.

> how is ownership established if there is no single source of truth?

Oh, boy, let me tell you it is very disconcerting to pay a title company to do a search of legal records on a property, and the only guarantee they offer in some states is that "we didn't find anything suspicious but there is no guarantee that someone from the past won't pop up with a better claim to ownership. You can't hold it against us if that happens." How is it that most people making the biggest purchase of their lives are going along with that? I'm definitely not okay with it, but sometimes you can't buy property without accepting it- no title company will offer a stronger guarantee.

For details, I'm talking about how in some states the Special Warranty Deed is the standard for real estate purchases: https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/what-is-a-special-warrant.... A title company will guarantee that the current seller hasn't entered any agreements that might legally obligate you (such as offering the property as collateral for an outstanding loan), but they are very clear that actions of previous owners are not included in this guarantee. So there is no single source of truth- we just hope that we're not part of the tiny percentage where the special deed is insufficient.

Edit: for context, there is a distinction between title insurance and the deed itself, but the title company is only offering insurance on the deed, so if the deed only covers the previous owner then the insurance only covers that too.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#68

Post by skissane »

pdonis wrote: post #61
weinzierl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry [..]" Fascinating, how is ownership established if there is no single source of truth? I feel the answer to this is also crucial to understanding OP. It could be a minor annoyance or the real possibility to lose your land.

> how is ownership established if there is no single source of truth? There is: the county clerk in the county where the land is located.

No, the county clerk records aren’t a “single source of truth”. In the US system, it is possible to convince a court the county records are wrong, and order them overridden-which makes them not the single source of truth.

By contrast, in the Torrens system, whatever the government records say are final. If you are the innocent victim of a mistake by the government (or a fraud against it), the government has to compensate you; but you don’t actually get the land back if it has since been sold to an innocent purchaser.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#69

Post by mandevil »

pdonis wrote: post #61
weinzierl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry [..]" Fascinating, how is ownership established if there is no single source of truth? I feel the answer to this is also crucial to understanding OP. It could be a minor annoyance or the real possibility to lose your land.

> how is ownership established if there is no single source of truth? There is: the county clerk in the county where the land is located.

But at least in some places in the US that's actually just a log of some kinds of transactions (sales and mortgages): you don't have a normalized field in a database somewhere that spits out "this person owns this spot" instead you have to build up from each individual transaction- plus there are transactions that don't take place on the log, e.g. deaths and inheritance or marriage/divorce that could take place outside the purview of the county clerk.

e.g. a married couple buys a house, then one of them dies, and the will is recorded in a different state and leaves their property to their kids rather than the spouse, that sort of update would not be recorded in the county clerk's office in my state.

Re: 221 Cannon is Not For Sale

#70

Post by ggm »

weinzierl wrote: post #42
dcrazy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry because that is not an enumerated power of the federal government. The individual states have sovereignty over their own land and each has its own system for land registration. The article you linked to even names several states that have a partial Torrens title system. The claim that the title insurance industry is the reason for lack of adoption of Torrens t…

"No, the United States doesnt have a central land registry [..]" Fascinating, how is ownership established if there is no single source of truth? I feel the answer to this is also crucial to understanding OP. It could be a minor annoyance or the real possibility to lose your land.

Database mistakes on entry happen in Torrens. Rarer, but not unheard of. Tasmanian "owned" and lived on block for decades, when sold found they'd owned the one next door. There's a critical role in acceptance where somebody as agent has to say yay or nay and a Queensland couple had the agent say the wrong outcome when the real owner didn't consent and it went to the high court if I recall.

Torrens is great but CAP theory still applies.

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