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Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

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Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#61

Post by JumpCrisscross »

SilverElfin wrote: post #52
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nearly impossible to assert your own rights. It is a very hard legal battle to get those rights acknowledged and upheld by the courts What are you basing this on? This administration is constantly losing in court.

They mean it’s costly - in time and money - so in practice random individuals who are abused by the government can’t defend their rights and simply have to accept losing them. Plus even if the administration loses, why would they care? They aren’t going to jail for those losses.

> They mean it’s costly

Which is far from “nearly impossible.”

> even if the administration loses, why would they care? They aren’t going to jail

Neither is someone whose TSA PreCheck is revoked.

Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#62

Post by nerdsniper »

kelnos wrote: post #33
nerdsniper wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, yes, because it's clearly intended to have a chilling effect on speech. But also Global Entry isn't really a thing, it's kind of just like a weird privilege some people can get ... because ... ??? It's just a fake-privilege thing. Taking it away doesn't actually prevent anyone from doing anything/going anywhere they would have anyways.

It's a privilege pretty much anyone can get if they have a clean record, pay the fee, and do the interview. Taking it away can mean a much longer wait returning to the US. And while that certainly isn't an earth-shattering problem that is going to cost people their lives or general freedom, it is absolutely unconstitutional for the government to retaliate against someone for exercising their constitutional rights. Th…

To be clear, I find it horrifying.

I also find Global Entry, TSA Precheck, and especially Clear to all be problematic, along with the fact that people flying on private jets don't need to go through the same TSA checks that the rest of us do. Hell, I even think it's bad to have different lines at customs for citizens vs. non-citizens. I think the most-privileged of us should use the same public infrastructure as the least-privileged of us.

My comment was a reflection of multiple different opinions on different topics.

Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#63

Post by peyton »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #58
tokyobreakfast wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trusted Traveller programs are a privilege and not a constitutionally protected entitlement. They can be revoked at any time for any reason and you don't get your money back. What law are you talking about? Show us where in the Constitution it says you're entitled to cut in line at the airport. We're now in the Find Out phase of "Let's fuck around with DHS and see if they take us off their club's VIP list".

Personally, I don’t think that anyone should be speaking authoritatively on this subject because it seems to me to be untested constitutional law, unless a constitutional scholar would like to chime in. In which case, it’s up to the Supreme Court to either explicitly (through judgment) or implicitly (through denying a hearing of the case) decide.

Ok, I am a Constitutional Scholar and there is no way that not getting to jump the line at the airport is a “material adverse action” because you can simply get in line. In general, there need to be damages when you talk about liability.

Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#64

Post by JumpCrisscross »

lazide wrote: post #51
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Guess who runs borders and immigration, which is the use case for PreCheck and Global Entry? Not ICE? > Guess who has essentially unlimited jurisdictional limits? ICE. ICE thinks that. The courts are disagreeing.

First question - CBP, as noted. Unlimited jurisdictional limits - and the courts will enforce this with whose army? As it were. ICE isn’t allowed to act on citizens either, and yet here we are.

> ICE isn’t allowed to act on citizens

By law or policy?

Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#65

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

peyton wrote: post #63
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I don’t think that anyone should be speaking authoritatively on this subject because it seems to me to be untested constitutional law, unless a constitutional scholar would like to chime in. In which case, it’s up to the Supreme Court to either explicitly (through judgment) or implicitly (through denying a hearing of the case) decide.

Ok, I am a Constitutional Scholar and there is no way that not getting to jump the line at the airport is a “material adverse action” because you can simply get in line. In general, there need to be damages when you talk about liability.

Welcome to the thread! I trust your expertise, but am a little put off by your flippant tone:

> getting to jump the line at the airport is a “material adverse action”

This is rhetorical device of framing. I could just as easily say:

> Pretending to open an online cupcake shop and pretending to be forced to serve gay people isn’t a “material adverse action”

And it would sound equally ridiculous, yet the highest court in the land ruled in that individual’s favor.

Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#66

Post by 5ykh »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #64
lazide wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First question - CBP, as noted. Unlimited jurisdictional limits - and the courts will enforce this with whose army? As it were. ICE isn’t allowed to act on citizens either, and yet here we are.

> ICE isn’t allowed to act on citizens By law or policy?

It’s not legal to deport U.S. citizens but they have anyway. A judge in Minnesota has said that ICE has violated around 100 court orders. We are living in a personalist dictatorship. The courts are ignored when their rulings are inconvenient.

Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#67

Post by g-b-r »

kelnos wrote: post #29
g-b-r wrote: post #4

This is a first amendment violation, right?

Absolutely. The problem is proving in court that the pre check / global entry revocations are a direct result of the protesting. The government has levers they can use to muddy the issue and claim that it's a coincidence.

I'm not sure that they want to hide it; in any case, if it's systematic there will be thousands of these "coincidences", enough to convince a judge or jury even without investigating the revocations

Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#68

Post by g-b-r »

apgwoz wrote: post #8
g-b-r wrote: post #4

This is a first amendment violation, right?

Yes. Except they are attempting to make the claim that protesters are interfering with federal operations, which is a crime. Therefore, they can try to make the claim that they are only investigating potential involvement in a crime, punish you, and file it under a violation of the terms of service for precheck and global entry. IANAL, etc, but this seems to be the strategy.

I don't think that terms of service can override the constitution, in any case

Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#69

Post by overfeed »

tokyobreakfast wrote: post #34
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost certainly. The law should also be amended to require conviction or settlement, not merely investigation, to revoke someone’s PreCheck or Global Entry status.

Trusted Traveller programs are a privilege and not a constitutionally protected entitlement. They can be revoked at any time for any reason and you don't get your money back. What law are you talking about? Show us where in the Constitution it says you're entitled to cut in line at the airport. We're now in the Find Out phase of "Let's fuck around with DHS and see if they take us off their club's VIP list".

This is textbook retaliation. Your statement is akin to a manager firing their underling after their romantic advances are rejected, and quoting at-will employment laws. Sure, you can be fired for "any" reason - except retaliation - that is illegal.

Re: Court Filings: ICE App Identifies Protesters; Global Entry, PreCheck Get Revoked

#70

Post by JumpCrisscross »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #65
peyton wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I am a Constitutional Scholar and there is no way that not getting to jump the line at the airport is a “material adverse action” because you can simply get in line. In general, there need to be damages when you talk about liability.

Welcome to the thread! I trust your expertise, but am a little put off by your flippant tone: > getting to jump the line at the airport is a “material adverse action” This is rhetorical device of framing. I could just as easily say: > Pretending to open an online cupcake shop and pretending to be forced to serve gay people isn’t a “material adverse action” And it would sound equally ridiculous, yet the highest court…

> This is rhetorical device of framing

Is MAC a thing outside mergers?

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