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Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

arstechnica.com

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Re: Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

#61

Post by nawgz »

RobotToaster wrote: post #47
OKRainbowKid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like just victim blaming - "she was asking for it with the clothes she was wearing".

Software with vulnerabilities was defectively written. If someone makes tanks with paper for armour, because it cuts costs, they are to blame if those tanks catch fire.

A tank is designed for war. Infrastructure is designed to serve some other utility. Claiming it should also be hardened against (cyber) war is acknowledging that there is an aggressor performing an attack of war, not that the infrastructure is failing the utility it was designed for.

It's fine to have this view that software should be defect free and hardened against sophisticated nation-state attackers, but it stretches the meaning of "defect" to me. A defect would be serving to fulfill that utility it had been designed for, not succumbing to malicious attackers.

Re: Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

#63

Post by msuniverse2026 »

general1465 wrote: post #4
HPsquared wrote: post #2

For what purpose? Cui bono?

Poland is a major logistical hub for everything going towards Ukraine. Thus targeting basic infrastructure like energy grid or railroad have to be expected. On the bright side, using these weapon grade malware is burning exploits and also showing current state and techniques of Russian cyberwarfare which defender can learn a lot from.

Interesting that Russia still hasn't targeted the bridges going into Ukraine from Poland for some reason.

Re: Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

#64

Post by throw310822 »

Zagitta wrote: post #15
throw310822 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're conveniently omitting these all happened in response to the full scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. But thanks for proving the point about Russia's disinformation war.

[flagged]

Re: Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

#65

Post by [deleted] »

shakna wrote: post #59
tosapple wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I guess I shouldn't be drawn by someone calling me an idiot... But one last try. You suggested that the cost of cyberattacks on industry, is not so great as when we were destroying it with bombs instead. However, every time we have power outages, people die. Then we have the cost of securing the infrastructure. And the cost of everyone else affected, who has to increase their resilience. Your bank is collateral damag…

[deleted]

Re: Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

#66

Post by jacquesm »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #50
esafak wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do they not have backups??

Enough for the entire grid? There are some amount of reserves on hand (eg drunk runs into a telephone pole), but nothing that could replace a targeted attack with the explicit goal of taking out the most vital infrastructure.

And those pole mounted transformers are tiny. The big ones require special transports and can weigh a few hundred tons. Some are so large they are best transported via boat if possible.

Re: Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

#67

Post by wolvesechoes »

msuniverse2026 wrote: post #63
general1465 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland is a major logistical hub for everything going towards Ukraine. Thus targeting basic infrastructure like energy grid or railroad have to be expected. On the bright side, using these weapon grade malware is burning exploits and also showing current state and techniques of Russian cyberwarfare which defender can learn a lot from.

Interesting that Russia still hasn't targeted the bridges going into Ukraine from Poland for some reason.

What bridges?

Re: Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

#68

Post by jacquesm »

K0balt wrote: post #32
jacquesm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're missing the point. If they succeed they may well not be reversible. The question is if this had succeeded would we have shrugged it off again or responded appropriately?

Can you give some examples of? I can imagine that under the right circumstances you might succeed in blowing up some transformers or even a turbine, but it seems like you’d be up to speed within a month or two on the outside? Or am I missing the gravity somehow?

> Or am I missing the gravity somehow?

Yes, there is the risk of cascading failures, some industrial processes are very hard to re-start once interrupted (or even impossible) and the lead time on 'some transformers' can be a year or more. These are nothing like the kind that you can buy at the corner hardware store. A couple of hundred tons or so for the really large ones.

Grid infra is quite expensive, hard to replace and has very long lead times.

The very worst you could do is induce oscillations.

Re: Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

#69

Post by mrtesthah »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #40
general1465 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland is a major logistical hub for everything going towards Ukraine. Thus targeting basic infrastructure like energy grid or railroad have to be expected. On the bright side, using these weapon grade malware is burning exploits and also showing current state and techniques of Russian cyberwarfare which defender can learn a lot from.

> On the bright side, using these weapon grade malware is burning exploits and also showing current state and techniques of Russian cyberwarfare which defender can learn a lot from. Or perhaps they used an already-known malware to measure defensive capabilities without showing any of their cards.

You'd think it would've been done during the summer or some other time when that wouldn't matter then.

Re: Poland's energy grid was targeted by never-before-seen wiper malware

#70

Post by [deleted] »

naryJane wrote: post #25
reactordev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the information war they have been waging globally since 2016

True, but they’ve certainly been doing it much longer than ten years. I’ll never forget this headline [0] that struck me as purely devilish, especially in the lead up to the 2016 presidential election. Combine that with the knowledge that Trump has been anti-NATO since the 1980s [1]. Who knows how long Russia has been nudging him along. Who knows how many avenues they traverse? Take for example the letter to Senator…

[deleted]
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