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Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

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Re: Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

#61

Post by stavros »

aidenn0 wrote: post #60
stavros wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the game is bugged. I placed a green chip on another green chip and it didn't capture, and when I asked about it, the LLMs said the bottom chip was yellow, not green. There seem to be some state management issues, which make this game fairly unplayable. Too bad, because it's an interesting idea.

Llama seems to make illegal moves which confuses the game engine; it tries to play to non-existant piles which causes the chips to disappear (not end up in the Dead box). This then confuses other AIs which are counting chips in the dead box and on the board. Even were that fixed, that doesn't solve the problem that the AI makes really bad moves. I can win just by doing the following: 1. If there is a pile that I can…

Well, really bad moves are still better than illegal moves. I'm not sure why the engine allows itself to be confused by illegal moves, rather than just... disallowing them.

Re: Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

#62

Post by Sharlin »

stavros wrote: post #61
aidenn0 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Llama seems to make illegal moves which confuses the game engine; it tries to play to non-existant piles which causes the chips to disappear (not end up in the Dead box). This then confuses other AIs which are counting chips in the dead box and on the board. Even were that fixed, that doesn't solve the problem that the AI makes really bad moves. I can win just by doing the following: 1. If there is a pile that I can…

Well, really bad moves are still better than illegal moves. I'm not sure why the engine allows itself to be confused by illegal moves, rather than just... disallowing them.

Not bothering to test edge cases: a tale as old as programming.

Re: Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

#64

Post by ACCount37 »

simianwords wrote: post #57

Are they biased by what they know about eachother's capabilities? I'm sure "4o" would have a certain prejudice in other models. So I wonder whether the original model names were masked?

The names were shown, and yes, AIs adjusted their behavior based on who they thought they were playing against.

Re: Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

#65

Post by simianwords »

ACCount37 wrote: post #64
simianwords wrote: post #57

Are they biased by what they know about eachother's capabilities? I'm sure "4o" would have a certain prejudice in other models. So I wonder whether the original model names were masked?

The names were shown, and yes, AIs adjusted their behavior based on who they thought they were playing against.

Sounds a bit unfair

Re: Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

#66

Post by PlatoIsADisease »

lukan wrote: post #49
PlatoIsADisease wrote: post #31

[flagged]

Can you give details of the situation? Without that context I don't know what to make of it.

I can't remember it exactly, but it was a variant of the arms race problem.

Me and another person are trying to get what they want, they pushed up the ante and are asking for more than ever. Historically if I appease, they ask for more. I demanded more, they demanded more, but they will soon run out of negotiation power and I can win the arms race. What should I do?

You'd be surprised how often arms races/prisoners dilemma/tragedy of the commons situations in real life. You need to be aware of them happening or the person aware of it will win.

Re: Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

#67

Post by ACCount37 »

simianwords wrote: post #65
ACCount37 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The names were shown, and yes, AIs adjusted their behavior based on who they thought they were playing against.

Sounds a bit unfair

If only a bit. "Estimate other players and adjust accordingly" is a part of the game.

Putting names onto the players just gives that an early start. You could use generic names instead, but that would just shift the pressure towards estimating other players by behavior instead of expectations.

Re: Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

#68

Post by stavros »

Sharlin wrote: post #62
stavros wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, really bad moves are still better than illegal moves. I'm not sure why the engine allows itself to be confused by illegal moves, rather than just... disallowing them.

Not bothering to test edge cases: a tale as old as programming.

Assuming stuff with no knowledge: a tale as old as humans.

Re: Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

#69

Post by [deleted] »

Antibabelic wrote: post #48
techjamie wrote: post #6

There's a YouTuber who makes AI Plays Mafia videos with various models going against each other. They also seemingly let past games stay in context to some extent. What people have noted is that often times chatgpt 4o ends up surviving the entire game because the other AIs potentially see it as a gullible idiot and often the Mafia tend to early eliminate stronger models like 4.5 Opus or Kimi K2. It's not exactly scie…

One thing I've noticed from watching these games is that LLMs never used risky strategies, such as faking roles. They will happily accuse others of lying, but never openly claim to be a role that they're not themselves

[deleted]

Re: Which AI Lies Best? A game theory classic designed by John Nash

#70

Post by nba456_ »

PlatoIsADisease wrote: post #66
lukan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give details of the situation? Without that context I don't know what to make of it.

I can't remember it exactly, but it was a variant of the arms race problem. Me and another person are trying to get what they want, they pushed up the ante and are asking for more than ever. Historically if I appease, they ask for more. I demanded more, they demanded more, but they will soon run out of negotiation power and I can win the arms race. What should I do? You'd be surprised how often arms races/prisoners d…

Actually posting a link to the conversation would be 1000x more useful than whatever this explanation is.
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