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The world of Japanese snack bars

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Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#61

Post by Rodeoclash »

scottyah wrote: post #56
crooked-v wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> due to Japan's funny zoning laws Way better than what we have here in the US. For those not familiar with them, the gist is that Japanese zoning defines what's basically a maximum nuisance level (from low-density residential, up to various levels of commercial operation, up to heavy industry), and anything up to that can be built in the given area. Plenty of 'residential' areas are broadly zoned as allowing up to l…

It truly is, I recently read a great article about the coffee shops being run out of a room in people's homes- I would love to sell coffee out of my garage for a few hours before work.

Compared to Australia where the government attempts to plan and control every aspect of commercial business, Japan's laws are a real breath of fresh air. Melbourne's had laws so strict that they've done a bang up job of ruining the local live music scene. Minimum numbers of bouncers, licenses that don't extend past midnight. Our big dance parties have been shifting the start times earlier and earlier because of absurd curfews. Some bars have been grandfathered in because they had licenses before all this started but it's impossible to obtain new ones. Unless of course you are the casino in which case citizens can spend the weekly food money on slot machines at whatever hour of the day they choose.

In Japan I was in a city during a local jazz festival. Entire streets shut down, bars with stalls set up on the street selling drinks. Kids intermingled in the alcohol drinking area and you know what? People behaved themselves and had a great time.

Australia, lacking any real problems to solve is like a modern immune system attacking the host because it can't find the invaders it should be taking care of.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#62

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #13
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth pointing out that there are certainly establishments where tourists aren’t welcome. Ironically I’ve had some gay friends walked from a local only gay bar to the tourists welcome gay bar across the street :-)

Oh definitely. I mean, my neighbourhood has a bar that doesn’t even allow people who don’t live in the area as well. I guess, the gay bars not allowing foreigners is for a different reason, but soft discrimination is very ubiquitous. On the bright side, there are hundreds of thousands of other establishments that will happily take your money.

To be clear, I take zero issue with the bar exclusion and my friends are in the same position. The cultural differences are so substantial that it’s an understandable desire for locals not wanting to adapt theirs to suit ours.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#63

Post by rtpg »

anonymous908213 wrote: post #42
rtpg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Notably, the lack of legalised marriage is not because the population is too conservative. Rather, it is because the US forced a constitution on Japan which enshrines heterosexual marriage as constitutional law, and changing the constitution is significantly more difficult than changing a normal law. Beyond the fact that they could easily get around this with civil unions, this feels like a massive misrepresentatio…

While there is no national civil union law, and it would of course be great if there were, enough prefectures and municipalities have implemented civil unions such that >90% of people live in areas covered by them, so the legal status quo isn't horrendous. > Something so small and unimportant. Still very far away from civil unions for non-hetero couples. Your framing of this issue is a bit misleading. You suppose tha…

Do the locality-based civil unions actually provide necessary rights for spouses when it comes to things like property rights and the like? Maybe it does.

You’re right to point out public support (I didn’t realize the name thing had less support than same-sex marriage!)

I mainly wanted to highlight that the politicians are not there yet (or rather the ones that end up making the decision, even if supporters and the rank and file support it). But maybe we’ll get same-sex marriage before the name thing!

I could totally be misreading what the state of things on the ground is.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#64

Post by tkgally »

jamestimmins wrote: post #58

Not snack bars, but tiny bars were absolutely one of my favorite things in Japan. The streets of 3-5 seat bars felt incredibly special and distinct from anything I've seen in the US, regardless of the presumably high % of their business that came from tourists.

> the presumably high % of their business that came from tourists

That's only in the areas frequented by tourists. The vast majority of such tiny bars cater mainly to locals.

Lately I've been taking pictures of bar signs in Japanese cities:

https://gally.net/barsigns/index.html

The sheer number of bars in such dense concentrations continues to impress me.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#65

Post by anonymous908213 »

rtpg wrote: post #63
anonymous908213 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there is no national civil union law, and it would of course be great if there were, enough prefectures and municipalities have implemented civil unions such that >90% of people live in areas covered by them, so the legal status quo isn't horrendous. > Something so small and unimportant. Still very far away from civil unions for non-hetero couples. Your framing of this issue is a bit misleading. You suppose tha…

Do the locality-based civil unions actually provide necessary rights for spouses when it comes to things like property rights and the like? Maybe it does. You’re right to point out public support (I didn’t realize the name thing had less support than same-sex marriage!) I mainly wanted to highlight that the politicians are not there yet (or rather the ones that end up making the decision, even if supporters and the r…

The municipal/prefectural civil unions aren't fully legally equivalent to marriage unfortunately, they do offer tangible benefits but there is still room to improve. It's not nothing, at least.

One thing I would like to note is that Takaichi doesn't necessarily get to make the decision. Japan does not have a presidential system and the PM does not have veto power. As PM she does obviously hold significant influence in the party, but the LDP is a broad tent with multiple factions, and those factions could potentially pressure her given the LDP is losing ground and opposition to same-sex rights is unpopular even with the party's supporters. Due to the constitutional law issue, I'm not optimistic about same-sex marriage in the near-term, but I do think things are trending in the correct direction, that it's likely that more legal rights will continue to be enshrined in the short-term even if full marriage recognition isn't, and that Western media creating a panic about Takaichi and Japan's supposed trend towards ultraconservatism is more oriented towards garnering engagement than accurate reporting.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#66

Post by PlatoIsADisease »

dismalaf wrote: post #39
PlatoIsADisease wrote: post #22

If only food service paid decent money. I know the majority owner of a pretty massive fast food chain (600 stores, most franchises) and he was telling me he was offered 10M to sell the company. His entire life he worked day and night, and he would be getting $3M. (Mind you, he owns dozens of franchises, so he still keeps those) He brought his kid into the business, and I can tell he has a bit of envy that I own a sma…

You act like $100k/year isn't still well above average. Hell it's above what SWEs make in any country that's not the USA. But pertaining to this article, the key to tiny Japanese restaurants such as these snack bars is that their startup costs are extremely low, rents are low and since they're tiny, they don't need staff so they keep all the profit. Probably good enough to make an average living without too many worr…

100k is a pay cut for me. Especially the risk and amount of work involved.

I program a w2 job and can make 1.5x that without difficulty. I program for my own company and make 2-20x more.

I don't think the average person could handle the risk, difficulty of labor, and knowledge to run a successful restaurant that makes 100k/yr.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#68

Post by while_true_ »

petercooper wrote: post #32
tempest_ wrote: post #8

It is an interesting concept when contrasted with the disappearance of "third places" in the western world.

I got to thinking how difficult a micro business like this would be to run in the UK. You'd have council hygiene inspectors, insurance, alcohol duties, zoning limitations, music licensing, and the business rates folks all over your back for starters.

Same here in California. Zoning, permits, food inspections and handicap access requirements would make a small snack bar economically infeasible.

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#69

Post by billforsternz »

defen wrote: post #53
gyomu wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oddly only the French did understand the sentiment French culture is a rare culture where shop owners won't be afraid to tell off/talk back at customers that don't show a basic level of politeness. You, as a customer, are in the shopkeeper's "home", so to speak, and you should behave accordingly. Someone who doesn't use the customary "bonjour/merci/au revoir" is likely to be met with some response like "tout d'abor…

> French culture is a rare culture where shop owners won't be afraid to tell off/talk back at customers that don't show a basic level of politeness. My favorite French shop anecdote (I'm American): Went to a bakery in Paris. Tried to order "Un croissant, s'il vous plaît". Shopkeeper responded (in very lightly accented English) with "I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying". I wasn't mad or offended, in fact…

Bonjour monsieur, je voudrais une eclair chocolate s'il vous plait is my number one French phrase. I can usually sell it. Maybe you needed the prefixes?

Re: The world of Japanese snack bars

#70

Post by dfajgljsldkjag »

I find it unfortunate that this article is glorifying the quite exploitative industry of hostess bars in Japan. From Wikipedia:

> A "snack bar" (スナックバー, sunakku bā), "snack" for short, refers to a kind of hostess bar. It is an alcohol-serving bar that employs female staff to serve and flirt with male customers.

It is the kind of place where lonely men pay money to talk to hostesses, and while the "mama" runs the show, there is also a staff of young women who do most of the work.

The example shown in the article, which happens to do speed dating and fortune telling, is absolutely not a central example of this kind of place.

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