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Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

bundesregierung.de

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Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#61

Post by rpiguy »

ben_w wrote: post #49
rpiguy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please leave this comment on all the posts that state “we need to protest” or “look at the mad king” I don’t see any explanation or opportunity for curious conversation. Why did you single mine out? Oh yeah, the default instinct to censor different ideas. I support the US assuming control of Greenland because it would be incredibly economically beneficial to the US, militarily beneficial to the US, we’d be on…

> I support the US assuming control of Greenland because it would be incredibly economically beneficial to the US, militarily beneficial to the US You immediately lose all of your NATO allies, and have the potential for an immediate war with not only all of them but also all the non-NATO members of the EU, which includes two independent nuclear powers, and who hold enough assets to cripple your economy without even f…

The US would likely not have to fire a single shot. NATO would likely do nothing substantive. No economic repercussions.

If anything this is a wake up call for Europe to come to grips with how ineffectual they have become.

Any kind of financial maneuver any country would try against the US would mostly hurt them more.

France and Spain are probably the most independent of the US economically but the other member states not so much.

Any economic reaction would by symbolic or very short lived.

Governments protect themselves not the people. All those government employees need tax revenue.

All the rich people who run the world behind the scenes don’t want their assets to deflate.

The EU could fracture over any kind of major retaliation.

Estonia, Latvia, and Poland will want the US to stay in NATO at all costs with Putin next door.

Germany is dependent on exports. Their entire economy could collapse without US trade.

Don’t you feel the pantomime of it all? The leaders in Europe are saying what they absolutely have to say. Having the meetings they have to have.

There will probably be some kind of deal reached eventually so the leaders of the Europe can appear to have done something slightly better than giving Greenland away.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#62

Post by windowpains »

The best thing these countries could do would be to increase military spending to protect against Trump (and actual enemies like Putin whom they’ve enabled by their idiotic energy deals and “not my problem” approach to defense spending). I doubt they will, so US will get Greenland ceteris paribus.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#63

Post by rpiguy »

tzs wrote: post #59
rpiguy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The officer suffered bruised ribs from the impact of the vehicle Even if there was contact no one gets bruised ribs from a car going as slow as that car was moving at that point.

That’s not how physics works. The amount of energy needed to get two tons of vehicle to move from rest is enormous and that energy was transferred to a human body. The force of a two ton vehicle moving even a couple MPH is substantial.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#64

Post by jemmyw »

holowoodman wrote: post #39
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #16

[flagged]

> because their extremely high VAT taxes and non-tariff trade barriers always hurt the US worse, and the EU rebates VAT on its own exports Your post is yet another example of how USians don't understand how VAT works. There is no VAT rebate on exports, there is a 100% reimbursement of VAT on any export. There is also a 100% reimbursement of VAT on any B2B sale. That way VAT is a tax only on goods that are sold to con…

> He might be their end-user (either business or customer) in which case he won't get 20% VAT back.

My understanding, dealing with VAT/GST in another country, is that a business customer still gets the VAT back even if they're the end user. If my company (which comprises of 1 person) buys paperclips, or a laptop or whatever for business use, I claim the VAT back. It's only the consumer who pays VAT. If I want to transfer an asset from my business to myself then I have to pay the VAT.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#65

Post by jemmyw »

rpiguy wrote: post #43
bediger4000 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would a standard invasion work? The news about DoD preparing invasion plans for Greenland have an invasion done by Special Operations, not the infantry, armor and air. Special operations probably wouldn't work for the population of Canada. After a short time, and some casualties, I think the US military would have real problems internally, not counting that popular support would disappear.

The US wouldn’t attack in an invasion. It would simply start building bases - it doesn’t need the south of Greenland. Just southern enough for a port that can stay open. If we build a Rammstein- sized base the US would already outnumber the native population. Would the Danes or French open fire on us while the US is setting up shop? Highly unlikely. Trump is pushing a total takeover but I suspect he would rather leav…

This is the madness of the whole thing - the US could already build more bases in Greenland if they wanted to.

This isn't about building bases or military strategy or even resources. If it were about those things then the US could take over Greenland slowly with little effort. My understanding is the population there would have welcomed investment. The US could have done some minor leg work and in 10-20 years Greenland would have been closer / keen to join, or whatever.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#66

Post by holowoodman »

jemmyw wrote: post #64
holowoodman wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because their extremely high VAT taxes and non-tariff trade barriers always hurt the US worse, and the EU rebates VAT on its own exports Your post is yet another example of how USians don't understand how VAT works. There is no VAT rebate on exports, there is a 100% reimbursement of VAT on any export. There is also a 100% reimbursement of VAT on any B2B sale. That way VAT is a tax only on goods that are sold to con…

> He might be their end-user (either business or customer) in which case he won't get 20% VAT back. My understanding, dealing with VAT/GST in another country, is that a business customer still gets the VAT back even if they're the end user. If my company (which comprises of 1 person) buys paperclips, or a laptop or whatever for business use, I claim the VAT back. It's only the consumer who pays VAT. If I want to tran…

Yes, what I told is a slight simplification. Since any company is usually not an end user and does something with its inventory that will sell to some end user, you can always get your VAT back. The way this works is that you as a company just never pay any VAT in the first place if you have a special VAT tax ID that you have to apply for and give to all your business partners. But that usually only works when not exporting or importing.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#67

Post by bitshiftfaced »

Flundstrom2 wrote: post #33
OrvalWintermute wrote: post #16

[flagged]

Fact: European VAT (20-25% depending on country) is same for all companies; domestic, EU, US and Asians alike, added to end customers. It's not EU's fault US manufacturers can't keep manufacturing costs down. Neither is it EU's fault Trump believes slapping tariffs hurting US consumers will improve US standing in the world.

The imbalance comes from how VAT and US taxes work differently. A European car comes to the show floor free of VAT. A US car likely has sales tax still embedded into the costs, and tariffs get multiplied on top of it. I'm not saying that it's anyone's "fault", but it is an advantage for countries that have VAT.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#68

Post by ben_w »

rpiguy wrote: post #61
ben_w wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I support the US assuming control of Greenland because it would be incredibly economically beneficial to the US, militarily beneficial to the US You immediately lose all of your NATO allies, and have the potential for an immediate war with not only all of them but also all the non-NATO members of the EU, which includes two independent nuclear powers, and who hold enough assets to cripple your economy without even f…

The US would likely not have to fire a single shot. NATO would likely do nothing substantive. No economic repercussions. If anything this is a wake up call for Europe to come to grips with how ineffectual they have become. Any kind of financial maneuver any country would try against the US would mostly hurt them more. France and Spain are probably the most independent of the US economically but the other member state…

> NATO would likely do nothing substantive. No economic repercussions.

At best, you still lose all your allies.

At worst, why are you willing to make this gamble? You go immediately go from two nuclear armed nations who "threaten" US interests in Greenland, to four.

> Any kind of financial maneuver any country would try against the US would mostly hurt them more.

The former allies could cost you in the order of $1.3 trillion fairly directly.

Worth it, to defend their sovereignty. Especially as the other half of that trade is things they're already saying they want to move away from.

> All the rich people who run the world behind the scenes don’t want their assets to deflate.

And you think the US doesn't have this exact category of rich people, who will pull the US back from this seppuku?

There's a reason "TACO" was coined WRT Trump.

> The EU could fracture over any kind of major retaliation.

1. And you think the US is unified right now?

2. And you think the EU wouldn't be concerned about fracture over failing to retaliate?

> Don’t you feel the pantomime of it all?

No.

I am reorganising my assets on the assumption of a total, 100%, trade blockade. All potential backdoors in hardware and software being activated. All goods, all services, being subject to escalating tariffs to split the economies apart as fast as possible in order to show preparation and readiness for a hot war. With nukes being an open question by both sides, and MAD being relevant again, but preparing for that is beyond me.

How would the US respond to Russia trying this BS to get Alaska back?

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#69

Post by shepherdjerred »

rpiguy wrote: post #48
ben_w wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say "think differently", they said "promoting fascism". If you look at J6 attempted self-coup where people were chanting death threats agaisnt the vice president and had a hangman's noose ready and pipe bombs were found and say "that was a peaceful protest", while also looking at the woman who was shot dead through the side window of her car while departing from a group of ICE officers and call that "self…

[flagged]

> Imagine the chaos if every city just ignored the laws they don’t like.

Isn't this the entire point of having a separate between federal, state, county, and city laws? States rights and all?

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, UK

#70

Post by rpiguy »

dragonwriter wrote: post #60
rpiguy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The first shot was through the windshield and the. she turned the wheel and the second two shots were fired through the side window as she was turning away. Video clearly shows the wheels were cut before forward motion started. > The officer suffered bruised ribs from the impact of the vehicle. This seems to be an attempt to rewrite the laughably false “internal bleeding” anonymous propaganda leak CBS news laundere…

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