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San Francisco to offer free childcare to people making up to $230k

theguardian.com

61–70 of 151 posts

Re: San Francisco to offer free childcare to people making up to $230k

#61

Income cliffs, even phased, are generally stupid. See Britain's 100k cliff for free childcare. If both parents make 99k, you get it. If one earns 101k and the other earns zero, you don't get it. The workaround (pension stuffing) is widely known and actually means the govt comes off worse than if they'd just given the childcare away. There are all kinds of other perverse effects like people turning down promotions or…

> Income cliffs

This is because people do not understand continuous functions.

Re: San Francisco to offer free childcare to people making up to $230k

#62

In a lot of 3rd world and less well off countries, childcare is done by the grandparents(mostly grandmothers), I'm always surprised why this isn't true in the west. Here we have an aging population, so grandparent/grandchild ratio should be very high.

very true! Mine are still working and after all are unable and unwilling to dedicate the whole time. They have plans or want to relax. Children are tiring. The west seems to be not only aging but also getting a bit lazy sometimes

Re: San Francisco to offer free childcare to people making up to $230k

#63
post #18

So now making 231k makes you worse off than someone making 230k? Why even have that threshold when it doesn't even exclude that many people, it just causes weird incentives.

The article also mentions a 50% subsidy up to $310,000. The details aren’t spelled out, but subsidies like this often phase out gradually to avoid a cliff at the threshold.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco to offer free childcare to people making up to $230k

#64

In a lot of 3rd world and less well off countries, childcare is done by the grandparents(mostly grandmothers), I'm always surprised why this isn't true in the west. Here we have an aging population, so grandparent/grandchild ratio should be very high.

My brother's two boys both had kids. One of them, his wife, was going to go back to work after giving birth but had horrible feelings and cried when she took the baby to daycare after maternity leave. She quit and now stays home taking care of her baby.

The other boy, his wife, also cried and was torn between going back to a job she loved but felt incredibly guilty about leaving her newborn to daycare. She was fortunate that grandma retired from her job about the same time and now takes care of baby during the day.

Happy to report that everyone is very, very happy. This is normal. It's how I grew up.

Re: San Francisco to offer free childcare to people making up to $230k

#65
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article also mentions a 50% subsidy up to $310,000. The details aren’t spelled out, but subsidies like this often phase out gradually to avoid a cliff at the threshold.

So now you are better off making 310k than 311k, is that much better? It doesn't matter how you read it you still get that effect.

You make it sound like a problem, but if you can make 311k, I'd say it shouldn't too hard to make 310k instead if that's better for you? Unless some companies have minimum salaries that high?

Re: San Francisco to offer free childcare to people making up to $230k

#66

Income cliffs, even phased, are generally stupid. See Britain's 100k cliff for free childcare. If both parents make 99k, you get it. If one earns 101k and the other earns zero, you don't get it. The workaround (pension stuffing) is widely known and actually means the govt comes off worse than if they'd just given the childcare away. There are all kinds of other perverse effects like people turning down promotions or…

I am also confused by cliffs. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me could explain why you would ever want them for something like this instead of just having higher progressive tax rates for well off people to make up for it. Naively I would think that that’s significantly easier from and administrative point of view too.

> I am also confused by cliffs. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me could explain why you would ever want them for something like this instead of just having higher progressive tax rates for well off people

Because middle-income clawback with sharp cliffs rather than gradual clawback starting or reaching into upper income ranges pits the middle-income segment of the working class against the poor in funding battles, helping to avoid political pressure to further increase benefits, and it also allows what can be marketed as a support system for the poor to also serve as an anchor that creates a progress wall just above the area where it provides net benefits, while minimizing the marginal impact on high-income earners.

Is this socially good? No. But it serves the interests of the people who politicians tend to see as their most important constituents, while creating a sharp division of interests between the poor and middle-income segments of the working class, obstructing the formation of working-class solidarity.

Re: San Francisco to offer free childcare to people making up to $230k

#67
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article also mentions a 50% subsidy up to $310,000. The details aren’t spelled out, but subsidies like this often phase out gradually to avoid a cliff at the threshold.

So now you are better off making 310k than 311k, is that much better? It doesn't matter how you read it you still get that effect.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco to offer free childcare to people making up to $230k

#70

this won't cost the city too much, there's only like a hundred kids under 6 in this city and 3% of them are mine.

When people say "there are barely any kids," they're often describing the outcome of past policy choices, not a reason to avoid changing them
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