Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

guys why does armenian completely break Claude

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 71 posts

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#61

Post by silvanocerza »

marssaxman wrote: post #60
silvanocerza wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The italian counterpart of what english speakers call "bolognese sauce" would be "ragù alla bolognese". I've never heard anyone call it "salsa bolognese", it's mostly called "ragù" only as it's most common type. Nonetheless ragù alla bolognese is made with ground beef and tomato sauce, so the italian version is simply wrong. Try and ask for ragù recipe instead. :)

That is the phrase Google Translate proposed: the exact prompt I used was "Come si prepara il ragù alla bolognese?" I often consult several different versions of a recipe before cooking, and this feels like a normal degree of variation. Perhaps there are regional differences? Just for kicks, I asked (in English) "what is an authentic Italian recipe for bolognese ragu?", and it produced a recipe similar to the version…

The translation is right.

There are indeed regional differences, but at that point is not called "alla bolognese" anymore but "alla whatever place". People usually call it "ragù" and that's it.

Didn't know that the original recipe has pancetta too. It's good nonetheless. :)

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#62

Post by Dilettante_ »

qubex wrote: post #59
Dilettante_ wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making a joke about something is not necessarily "making light of it". It can be a way for an individual or culture to approach and digest a topic that is too difficult or painful to engage with directly. First responders and medical professionals famously often have a sense of humor too dark to use around outsiders without causing offence/outrage(like what happened here), but I'm quite sure they are not "making ligh…

So are you planning to go into a synagogue sometime soon and doing a skit about how the Holocaust wasn’t so bad?

HN is not an armenian space equivalent to a synagogue, and the original poster did not say nor imply that the armenian genocide "wasn't so bad"(in other words: make light of it). Arguably what they did was a form of spreading awareness, even.

If you're arguing in good faith, you need to take about three steps back and realize what caliber of strawman you're fighting against here.

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#63

Post by qubex »

Dilettante_ wrote: post #62
qubex wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you planning to go into a synagogue sometime soon and doing a skit about how the Holocaust wasn’t so bad?

HN is not an armenian space equivalent to a synagogue, and the original poster did not say nor imply that the armenian genocide "wasn't so bad"(in other words: make light of it). Arguably what they did was a form of spreading awareness, even. If you're arguing in good faith, you need to take about three steps back and realize what caliber of strawman you're fighting against here.

I am absolutely arguing in good faith, and you should abstain from downplaying the atrocities that have befallen others and who still scar their descendants to this day. An off-colour joke was made and nobody here is calling it out for what it is, everybody is piling on to defend who made it. The joke was crass and insensitive and, if absolutely I must point this out, insofar as the original post was regarding the Armenian language it is highly likely that the original poster is Armenian themselves, making this Armenian-centric dialogue a kind of “Armenian space”.

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#64

Post by Dilettante_ »

qubex wrote: post #63
Dilettante_ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is not an armenian space equivalent to a synagogue, and the original poster did not say nor imply that the armenian genocide "wasn't so bad"(in other words: make light of it). Arguably what they did was a form of spreading awareness, even. If you're arguing in good faith, you need to take about three steps back and realize what caliber of strawman you're fighting against here.

I am absolutely arguing in good faith, and you should abstain from downplaying the atrocities that have befallen others and who still scar their descendants to this day. An off-colour joke was made and nobody here is calling it out for what it is, everybody is piling on to defend who made it. The joke was crass and insensitive and, if absolutely I must point this out, insofar as the original post was regarding the Ar…

>downplaying the atrocities

Like three times in this conversation I've explicitly differentiated between 'making jokes about' and 'downplaying' something, and every time you have failed to engage with my reasoning and instead chosen to simply double down on your two-dimensional accusation.

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#65

Post by xeckr »

jojobas wrote: post #54
xeckr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that this was tongue-in-cheek, but I could imagine living in a world where naming countries as they name themselves is the dominant linguistic convention. Why not call Japan Nippon in a sentence.

I could imagine living in a world where there are 3 sexes and everyone walks on ceilings. You're free to call Japan Nippon as long as you're fine with people raising eyebrows, sometimes not understanding what you mean, or deciding you're a pretentious twit. The request that we use a character that doesn't even exist in the English alphabet (ü) is particularly ludicrous.

If there is a mechanism by which the English language can lose letters over time (such as þ or æ), why wouldn't there be one by which it gains it?

It would make even more sense, after all we lose letters because we write those sounds using other letters or letter combinations, however the "ü" in "Türkiye" doesn't have an analogue in the existing alphabet.

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#66

Post by qubex »

Dilettante_ wrote: post #64
qubex wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely arguing in good faith, and you should abstain from downplaying the atrocities that have befallen others and who still scar their descendants to this day. An off-colour joke was made and nobody here is calling it out for what it is, everybody is piling on to defend who made it. The joke was crass and insensitive and, if absolutely I must point this out, insofar as the original post was regarding the Ar…

>downplaying the atrocities Like three times in this conversation I've explicitly differentiated between 'making jokes about' and 'downplaying' something, and every time you have failed to engage with my reasoning and instead chosen to simply double down on your two-dimensional accusation.

Just because you state that “making jokes about” is not tantamount to “downplaying” doesn’t mean I have to accept your distinction. They are materially indistinguishable in this context.

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#67

Post by Dilettante_ »

qubex wrote: post #66
Dilettante_ wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>downplaying the atrocities Like three times in this conversation I've explicitly differentiated between 'making jokes about' and 'downplaying' something, and every time you have failed to engage with my reasoning and instead chosen to simply double down on your two-dimensional accusation.

Just because you state that “making jokes about” is not tantamount to “downplaying” doesn’t mean I have to accept your distinction. They are materially indistinguishable in this context.

>doesn’t mean I have to accept your distinction

No, but not engaging with my argument supporting my position(about the emergency workers, though if your point is about this specific joke and not jokes about taboo topics in general I'll admit that that is moot), and setting up strawmen("about how the Holocaust wasn’t so bad?") means you're not arguing in good faith.

This isn't a discussion, you're just yelling your opinion at me over and over.

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#68

Post by qubex »

Dilettante_ wrote: post #67
qubex wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you state that “making jokes about” is not tantamount to “downplaying” doesn’t mean I have to accept your distinction. They are materially indistinguishable in this context.

>doesn’t mean I have to accept your distinction No, but not engaging with my argument supporting my position(about the emergency workers, though if your point is about this specific joke and not jokes about taboo topics in general I'll admit that that is moot), and setting up strawmen("about how the Holocaust wasn’t so bad?") means you're not arguing in good faith. This isn't a discussion, you're just yelling your op…

Fair enough, you might have a point insofar as we need not agree — the same goes both ways. However I find it hard to label a sequence of words that underplays the magnitude of the ‘issue’ to be worthy of the term ‘joke’. I can see that I might’ve been carried away in making my point, but it still stands when said more placidly: genocide is not a laughing matter.

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#69

Post by jojobas »

xeckr wrote: post #65
jojobas wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could imagine living in a world where there are 3 sexes and everyone walks on ceilings. You're free to call Japan Nippon as long as you're fine with people raising eyebrows, sometimes not understanding what you mean, or deciding you're a pretentious twit. The request that we use a character that doesn't even exist in the English alphabet (ü) is particularly ludicrous.

If there is a mechanism by which the English language can lose letters over time (such as þ or æ), why wouldn't there be one by which it gains it? It would make even more sense, after all we lose letters because we write those sounds using other letters or letter combinations, however the "ü" in "Türkiye" doesn't have an analogue in the existing alphabet.

I don't know how exactly that works, but definitely not by fiat from another country.

Re: guys why does armenian completely break Claude

#70

Post by Dilettante_ »

qubex wrote: post #68
Dilettante_ wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>doesn’t mean I have to accept your distinction No, but not engaging with my argument supporting my position(about the emergency workers, though if your point is about this specific joke and not jokes about taboo topics in general I'll admit that that is moot), and setting up strawmen("about how the Holocaust wasn’t so bad?") means you're not arguing in good faith. This isn't a discussion, you're just yelling your op…

Fair enough, you might have a point insofar as we need not agree — the same goes both ways. However I find it hard to label a sequence of words that underplays the magnitude of the ‘issue’ to be worthy of the term ‘joke’. I can see that I might’ve been carried away in making my point, but it still stands when said more placidly: genocide is not a laughing matter.

>underplays the magnitude of the ‘issue’

That jogged me a little: The magnitude of the issue would be different in the mind of any person: The original poster of the joke and I see more of a historical fact and engage with it fairly casually, while someone very directly affected might still (I maintain, though you don't have to agree) make jokes about it, but a very different kind of joke, one that does include the seriousness of the issue to them.

I'm having a little trouble articulating it, but I think my point is: You were "right" to call out the original joke as coming from a place of not-as-serious-about-the-genocide as, well, you seem to be. But this is a function of us, the people who indeed are not as serious about it as those more closely affected, not of it being a joke.

Post reply on HN