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The Post-American Internet

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Re: The Post-American Internet

#61

Post by sschueller »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #50
dxdm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain?

there is a reason why US can force ASML to stop selling its machine to China learn EUV technology history first, it originated from US department of energy research program, because of cost Gov decided to halt it but multiple private company take over the development but US Gov still hold a patent/license from that technology

> patent/license

Which are enforced by international agreements. At some point those don't matter anymore either and is also the point of the article.

Also Zeiss a Germany company is the only one that can make the optics required.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#62

Post by evrenesat »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #50
dxdm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain?

there is a reason why US can force ASML to stop selling its machine to China learn EUV technology history first, it originated from US department of energy research program, because of cost Gov decided to halt it but multiple private company take over the development but US Gov still hold a patent/license from that technology

If putin, then trump and their people agreed on that we are no longer living in a rule based world, patents, licences etc. would hold little value. Realpolitik of the globe will kick everyone's ass.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#64

Post by flanked-evergl »

European countries are de facto vassals of the US. Not because they have to be, not because it benefits them, but because this is what the politicians and their voters want.

Instead of taking care of Ukraine themselves, and providing security guarantees to Ukraine themselves, they expect the US to do it. Instead of supplying Ukraine itself, they need the US to do it. And all of this against an opponent, Russia, that is on paper almost entirely insignificant.

As things stand today, European countries cannot survive independently with US support, making them effectively vassals. And what is worse is, most of the political elite in Europe hate the Americans that they have made themselves completely dependent on.

I don't really like this status quo, as a European I think this is pathetic and embarrassing that we are entirely dependent on US without any need for us being dependent on them. But I don't get the elites that complain about the status quo on one hand, and on the other hand refuse to do anything to change it.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#65

Post by watwut »

mk89 wrote: post #31
thefz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think internet surveillance is an EU first, you will be delighted to read about PRISM

I think nobody in the EU believes that America is the country of freedom and privacy and anonymity. (Boolean and) I guess what the OP meant is that in EU you might have the police knocking at your door for some reasons you don't have in the USA, not because they don't have data about you, but because in the USA you have some very strong constitutional rights that are really hard to bypass. Twitter, Tiktok, etc could…

USA does not have strong constitutional rights. It has constitutional rights with zero teeth, little to no judicial backing and about thousands convoluted loopholes that ensure they dont apply to you.

And when, rarely, they do apply, you get no restitution or relief.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#66

Post by flumpcakes »

pu_pe wrote: post #2

> If the EU repeals Article 6 of the Copyright Directive, some smart geeks in Finland could reverse-engineer Apple's bootloaders and make a hardware dongle that jailbreaks phones so that they can use alternative app stores Apple could easily block this, and in the situation described here of a complete rupture with the US, they would no longer operate and sell phones in the EU. If Google decided to do the same, that…

What I think most US people don't realise, is this would overnight start the slow but complete collapse of the US and it's economy.

Europe can make alternatives to US tech, and with it's track record it will probably be more open with more legitimate options and less predatory monopolies.

Once that is established with a home grown market of 450m people it will start competing with US in all the other markets.

Let's not forgot how many EU people work for US tech.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#68

Post by dotandgtfo »

Quothling wrote: post #4

I've spent a couple of decades in the Danish public sector of digitalisation and in the private sector for global green energy. 10 years ago people would've laughed if you talked about leaving Microsoft and iOS in enterprise. Now we all have contingency plans for just that, and a lot of organisations are already actually doing it. So I would argue that there is more of a crack, but I'm not sure the post-american inte…

There's a clear winner of surveillance in the set of the US government, US companies, and the EU government and EU companies.

Not only is the EU miles behind the US, the US is accelerating faster towards more surveillance. Historically PRISM and the US Cloud act. More recently DOGE's recent actions in centralising data and a new crop of private enterprises working on surveillance tech like CCTV facial recognition.

I don't see the federal government applying any breaks on this development. However, I note some states are. But we do see clear attempts from the EU attempt to attempt to curb this. E.g. parts of the AI Act.

While I'm not enjoying the development certain factions are pushing through in the EU either, it is hyperbole to say that the EU is attempting to make a surveillance state, especially in this context.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#69

Post by close04 »

mk89 wrote: post #31
thefz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think internet surveillance is an EU first, you will be delighted to read about PRISM

I think nobody in the EU believes that America is the country of freedom and privacy and anonymity. (Boolean and) I guess what the OP meant is that in EU you might have the police knocking at your door for some reasons you don't have in the USA, not because they don't have data about you, but because in the USA you have some very strong constitutional rights that are really hard to bypass. Twitter, Tiktok, etc could…

> in EU you might have the police knocking at your door for some reasons you don't have in the USA

Is there any significant difference where the law gives you fewer rights in the EU in this regard? Speaking of knocking, it's very unlikely that in the EU some SWAT team will knock down your door because someone anonymously told them you're dangerous, kill you, and suffer no consequences.

> but because in the USA you have some very strong constitutional rights that are really hard to bypass

Other than the right to have guns, which keeps everyone happy and gives the SWAT team a legitimate reason to go in guns blazing, kill you, and get away with it, I'm having a hard time finding a right that isn't routinely subject to some exception. Guaranteed when the ultimate authority on the constitution is staffed by corrupt yes-men.

Re: The Post-American Internet

#70

Post by flumpcakes »

scotty79 wrote: post #16
pu_pe wrote: post #2

> If the EU repeals Article 6 of the Copyright Directive, some smart geeks in Finland could reverse-engineer Apple's bootloaders and make a hardware dongle that jailbreaks phones so that they can use alternative app stores Apple could easily block this, and in the situation described here of a complete rupture with the US, they would no longer operate and sell phones in the EU. If Google decided to do the same, that…

> Apple could easily block this, and in the situation described here of a complete rupture with the US, they would no longer operate and sell phones in the EU. If Google decided to do the same, that essentially leaves Europeans without smartphones. Microsoft could "brick" the rest of the EU's digital infrastructure overnight if they so wished, or were compelled to do so. All the more reasons to go scorched earth on A…

I think this is partly why the EU is trying to invest in native semiconductor technologies/companies Which is strange, because usually the EU doesn't make strategic moves like this (compare it to China, where nearly every thing it does is strategic).
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