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Using AI generated images to get refunds

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Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#61

Post by pembrook »

isoprophlex wrote: post #5

Maybe the extreme scalability of AI bullshitting will offset the extreme scalability of running large-scale direct-to-consumer oligopolies, and we see some return to local shopping, with all the positive effects on local communities... one can hope

What positive effects?

More suburban strip malls, more fluorescent lighting, more people working mindless do nothing retail jobs for minimum wage, higher prices due to zero economies of scale, inefficiency from every local store reinventing the wheel of staffing/recruiting/scheduling/warehouseing/anti-theft/POS/advertising/etc.

If online shops have to raise prices to combat fraud it doesn’t suddenly turn springfield Ohio into the Zurich city center.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#62

Post by exe34 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #20
exe34 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it will be implemented by chips-on-camera, that will tie you to a picture. it will be pushed forward by law enforcement ("think of the children!") and it will be great for profits. not so much for privacy.

Yet it doesn't actually solve the problem. Whatever technical implementation you can think of, can somehow be misused so you have AI pictures labeled as "Genuinely not AI". If you do come up with a 100% fool-proof implementation of this, you'll be able to get a lot of money for it, so do give it a try! Many have tried before you, yet it always turns out to be short of impossible. But who knows, maybe there is a way..…

I didn't say it would work - I said it would be made mandatory and will be used against us.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#63

Post by embedding-shape »

exe34 wrote: post #62
embedding-shape wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet it doesn't actually solve the problem. Whatever technical implementation you can think of, can somehow be misused so you have AI pictures labeled as "Genuinely not AI". If you do come up with a 100% fool-proof implementation of this, you'll be able to get a lot of money for it, so do give it a try! Many have tried before you, yet it always turns out to be short of impossible. But who knows, maybe there is a way..…

I didn't say it would work - I said it would be made mandatory and will be used against us.

Right, I guess I was still with the original topic/subject:

> We absolutely need certified no-AI digital proofs.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#64

Post by harvey9 »

atonse wrote: post #37

Isn’t this easy to fix over time? Like ok, you issue one refund. But if Amazon sees the same users requesting too many refunds then it is a red flag?

This is a somewhat useful filter for actual consumers but here we are also looking at large scale fraud. The article mentions opponents using rotating IP addresses and high volumes of refund requests to try to overwhelm counter-fraud measures.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#65

Post by dorfsmay »

fosco wrote: post #44
isoprophlex wrote: post #5

Maybe the extreme scalability of AI bullshitting will offset the extreme scalability of running large-scale direct-to-consumer oligopolies, and we see some return to local shopping, with all the positive effects on local communities... one can hope

Local stores bullshit too, I was at a well known American ‘sporting goods’ store and got an exercise ball of 75cm size (it states on box), it is fully pumped and smaller than a 55cm ball that I have. When purchasing online I’ve had better luck Caveat emptor

Did you measure them?

Did you return the one you bought locally?

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#66

Post by harvey9 »

mcphage wrote: post #60
websiteapi wrote: post #4

Eventually the concept of refunds will become very rare. In fact, it, along with free shipping were pretty rare before Amazon and Walmart. If you travel and go to some random beach town and buy random item from random street merchant, they won’t give you a refund. Main issue to bridge is ensuring the item is expected as you can’t physically inspect prior to purchase. It’ll be interesting to see how that’s solved. I p…

> Eventually the concept of refunds will become very rare. I don’t think so—it makes the risk of purchase too high, and people will buy less. Which is not what the sellers want. > it, along with free shipping were pretty rare before Amazon and Walmart. Refunds were not rare before Walmart and Amazon.

Refund-without-return is what might fade out. I've had that with low value things like a lightbulb that had the wrong fitting.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#67

Post by ACCount37 »

avereveard wrote: post #42
ACCount37 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "whether this is actually happening or not" is not even a question worth asking. No shit it's happening. Now, on what scale, and should we care?

is it happening literally is the most important question. people are clamoring for regulations and voiding consumer protections, over something nobody seem to find a independently verifiable source.

Lmao no. "The estimated amount of refund fraud" + "off the shelf AI can generate and edit photorealistic images" adds up to "refund fraud with AI generated images" by default.

There are enough fraudsters out there that someone will try it, and they're dumb enough that someone will get caught doing it in a hilariously obvious way. It would take a literal divine intervention to prevent that.

Now, is there enough AI-generated fraud for anyone to give a flying fuck about it? That's a better question to ask.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#68

Post by pixl97 »

avereveard wrote: post #43
estearum wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how every few months there's a new malicious usecase that AI proponents cast unreasonable amounts of doubt onto, then the problem becomes widely recognized, and AI proponents just move onto the next bastion of "ya but is this obvious malicious use case of my favored technology REALLY happening?" Gigantic bot farms taking over social media Non-consensual sexual imagery generation (including of children) LLM…

well yes that's how should we navigate societal change, out of actual threats and not what ifs. what ifs gave us some nice piece of work legislation before like DMCA, so yeah I'm going to be overly cautious about anything that is emotionally charged instead of data driven.

I mean digital privacy was not a what-if when the DCMA was written, it and its problems existed long before then. You're conflating business written legislation which is a totally different problem.

Also I guess you're perfectly fine with me developing self replicating gray nanogoo, I mean I've not actually created it and ate the earth so we can't make laws about self replicating nanogoo I guess.

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#69

Post by pixl97 »

intended wrote: post #31
avereveard wrote: post #13

every time I dig in this story is always stories of stories, and all walk backward to maybe one single merchant, which is just his word, with no police trail or court case trail or anything substantial, with news agency work over "examples and reconstruction of what might have happened" and no actual data that could be verified / falsified. is this something anyone has actually seen happen, or is it part of the AI hy…

I’ve heard that this was happening with food apps in India. I am waiting for when people realize how to fake prescriptions.

I mean a lot of US states use an electronic system where the doctor submits them directly. Are there still many printed prescriptions?

Re: Using AI generated images to get refunds

#70

Post by bgbntty2 »

An easy solution - open the package when the delivery person comes or when you pick it up from the delivery office. The delivery person can take a photo and act as a witness. If you take the package from the local delivery office, there are cameras and staff, so I can't just swap a ripe apple for a rotten one.

Where I live we don't have the habit of just putting the delivery on the porch for a few reasons. First, it's ridiculous if you think about it - no one signed for it, so how could you mark it as delivered? I don't get the US in that regard. Secondly, most of the houses have fences, so the delivery person can't come to the house even if they wanted to. You're basically required to meet the delivery person.

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