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All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

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Re: All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

#61

Post by mdavid626 »

fxwin wrote: post #43
netsharc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continental USA: 8 million square kilometer. Germany: 0.35 million square kilometer. On the point of the upkeep, locals know German trains are now legendary for unpunctuality and cancellations, so maybe it's not working. But the answer is obviously (trigger warning for the libertarians...) taxes. The ticket came about because energy prices went crazy after their energy dealer Putin went crazy and warry, I think it wa…

fyi regional trains (which the deutschlandticket is valid for) are very punctual, it is the long distance/ICE trains that are always late/broken, and you cannot ride those with thw deutschlandticket anyways.

Are you crazy? I use local trains daily and they are everything, but punctual. Also, S-Bahn? Worst service ever.

Re: All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

#62

Post by k_g_b_ »

luckylion wrote: post #33
k_g_b_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DB is only in its current state (company organization, leadership failures, organizational failures, underfunding for decades, etc) because of previous governments' failed attempts at privatization decades ago. Full actual privatization would not likely have yielded any better results - especially regarding the actual infrastructure itself. (There's enough examples worldwide) It's also been used for cushy post-politi…

For all its existence it has been 100% state-owned and state-controlled, yet because it's a failure, it's still somehow "not state, but actually privatized", even though not "full actual privatization" (but only imagined privatization). I understand the desire to have a scapegoat for failure, and to externalize it in some abstract capitalists/neoliberals/conservatives, but abandoning reality to create your own world…

Please read again and don't put your own ideological spin on my words, please. I fully blame governments and politicians for all failures. I did not write that it's "actually" or otherwise privatized, in fact I wrote "you're right that it's not privatized".

The root cause is still privatization attempts and politicians that don't like well run public infrastructure and sabotage it through underfunding and bad requirements/structure. These are the same people that always claim that infrastructure will work perfectly well when just sold off to the private sector for maximum profit extraction. The working long term strategy is to get these out of position of power - however as is common, people like to vote against their own interests for ideological and emotional reasons.

No need to abandon reality, austerity and idiotic state underfunding of basic infrastructure (not just rail) have been the norm in Germany for decades. This isn't some crackpot conspiracy, but well accepted reality.

Re: All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

#63

Post by rumplecat »

ngruhn wrote: post #57
panick21_ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most local and S-Bahn trains in Germany are pretty decent, data is pretty clear on this. Its not Swiss level but still pretty good. Nothing compare to ICE.

not sure what you count RB/RE as, but they are absolutely broken as well in my experience.

The german trains, even at their worst, are so much better than anything in the US. Complaining can also be a sport in Germany. Take a ride on Njtransit or the NYC subway to appreciate the difference. Or try to get anywhere in New Jersey without a car. In many parts of Germany, you can get almost anywhere conveniently with only public transportation.

Re: All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

#65

Post by nicbou »

chvid wrote: post #20
jiehong wrote: post #16

Germany has missed the digitalisation train, but how long will it continue to miss it for? At least, transparent issues like this one can only help.

The problem is the lack of centralization - there should obviously only be one issuer of this ticket and thus just only one website / app to keep bug free.

Germany has a tendency to wish something into existence with a law, and stop there. No guidelines, no tools, no enforcement. Often not a thought about feasibility. Nothing past the press release.

Sometimes a law will be in effect for two or three years and virtually no one will even know about it. Recycling electronics in supermarkets? Nope. E-Rechnung mandated for all B2B invoices? In your dreams.

I work at the other end of the spectrum, reducing friction for new immigrants to Germany. I find it especially frustrating. I could explain how things should be, but it would be pointless when reality is far more disappointing.

Re: All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

#66

Post by twixfel »

rumplecat wrote: post #63
ngruhn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not sure what you count RB/RE as, but they are absolutely broken as well in my experience.

The german trains, even at their worst, are so much better than anything in the US. Complaining can also be a sport in Germany. Take a ride on Njtransit or the NYC subway to appreciate the difference. Or try to get anywhere in New Jersey without a car. In many parts of Germany, you can get almost anywhere conveniently with only public transportation.

what’s going on in New York is irrelevant. The trains in Germany are largely bad. Bad enough that I don’t use them unless I have to. Once they’re at that stage it doesn’t matter how much worse they get for me, I still won’t use them.

Re: All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

#67

Post by fxwin »

bajinga wrote: post #44
fxwin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fyi regional trains (which the deutschlandticket is valid for) are very punctual, it is the long distance/ICE trains that are always late/broken, and you cannot ride those with thw deutschlandticket anyways.

no they are not. source: i am german and i use regional trains occasionally

thats great, but they are on time 85% of the time vs long distance trains' 62%

https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen...

see my other comment too

Re: All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

#68

Post by fxwin »

mdavid626 wrote: post #61
fxwin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fyi regional trains (which the deutschlandticket is valid for) are very punctual, it is the long distance/ICE trains that are always late/broken, and you cannot ride those with thw deutschlandticket anyways.

Are you crazy? I use local trains daily and they are everything, but punctual. Also, S-Bahn? Worst service ever.

idk what to tell you except that your personal experience does not generalize, see https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen...

the regional trains run by regional orgs rather than db get similar results, e.g. bwegt in baden württemberg or beg in bavaria

https://beg.bahnland-bayern.de/de/aufgaben/kontrollieren/pue...

https://vm.baden-wuerttemberg.de/de/mobilitaet-verkehr/bahn-...

Re: All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

#69

Post by itsyonas »

netsharc wrote: post #42
okr wrote: post #38

Is there a similar ticket, flat for 50 Dollar per month, that takes you through the US? I wonder who pays for the real cost of the ticket, who cleans and repairs the trains, who invests in infrastructure and all that. I always wonder how the germans can pull this off for 50 Euro. Magic.

Continental USA: 8 million square kilometer. Germany: 0.35 million square kilometer. On the point of the upkeep, locals know German trains are now legendary for unpunctuality and cancellations, so maybe it's not working. But the answer is obviously (trigger warning for the libertarians...) taxes. The ticket came about because energy prices went crazy after their energy dealer Putin went crazy and warry, I think it wa…

> Continental USA: 8 million square kilometer.

> Germany: 0.35 million square kilometer.

This does not matter much, since most people do not travel across states, countries, continents, etc on a daily basis. Most people probably travel within a 50 km (30 mile) radius (travelling to and from work, daycare, school, shopping, etc.).

iirc, the average is slightly higher in the US, but this is probably more due to how the US has approached urban planning over the last century or so than to the size of the country.

> But the answer is obviously (trigger warning for the libertarians...) taxes.

I think many people forget the huge societal cost of owning and running cars, including infrastructure maintenance, crash-related deaths and injuries, health conditions caused by crashes, air and noise pollution, climate change, resource extraction, and time lost in traffic. In other words, the savings from reducing these social, health, and environmental costs could easily finance the ticket. A study estimated that a modal shift of 10% to public transit could save Germany about 19 billion Euros a year (https://foes.de/publikationen/2024/2024-04_FOES_OEPNV.pdf).

Re: All my Deutschlandtickets gone: Fraud at an industrial scale [video]

#70

Post by pjmlp »

lachiflippi wrote: post #25
chvid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the lack of centralization - there should obviously only be one issuer of this ticket and thus just only one website / app to keep bug free.

Lack of centralization is one part of it (see also: communal digital services), yes, but the complete lack of standards and guidelines is also a massive issue. I tried buying a Deutschlandticket from the DB Navigator app a while back, and immediately ran into some issues: - they only take credit card, probably because of the massive SEPA fraud they've had happen - they require id verification with a third party(!), w…

Or foreigners that don't have German e-persos, because 99% of the time we don't need them.
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