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Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

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Re: Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

#61

Post by ivraatiems »

joecool1029 wrote: post #38

I don't know legally how it works, but my gut says if this is found to be a wrongful termination under state/local/FMLA, then it also stands to reason that this could also be a wrongful death. From 1960, but it covers this line of thinking wrt suicide: https://digitalcommons.law.buffalo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a... Anyway here's the actual complaint (I read it after I wrote the above), I guess her parents/counsel tho…

Thank you for finding this, really helpful. I checked PACER and didn't realize it was filed in state court instead.

The complaint is speaking and it is aggressively written and, to my non-lawyer mind, pretty well drafted. If I were Mongo, I would be trying aggressively to settle this and make it go away.

If I were the parents, I would be trying very hard to force any other outcome, preferably one where Mongo pays the biggest public relations price possible for what they've done, assuming the allegations are true.

The way Mongo answers the complaint will be really instructive in figuring out how they intend to play this, and in whether they think there is some explanation that will make this seem less dire.

Re: Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

#62

Post by GiorgioG »

ironmagma wrote: post #56
GiorgioG wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By all means then, lead the revolution.

First step is going to be for you to admit you’re actively stopping it.

The first step is for you to get your head out of the sand and look around. Jobs are scarce unless you're knee-deep in ML/AI. You're talking like a naive, idealistic, young person. I'm long past any of those attributes and I do have a family and a mortgage. Sure you can move to Europe, workers have more rights...and they earn a hell of a lot less than we do here in the USA (my brother lives in Europe.) And even there companies try to employ contract workers so they have more "flexibility".

Re: Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

#63

Post by DANmode »

stavros wrote: post #28
GiorgioG wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Companies are made of people. Companies only use people if the people who make up the companies are ok with it. Being a decisionmaker in a company doesn't give you carte blanche to behave like an amoral automaton. So no, MongoDB are assholes for doing this. They could have had some humanity and prioritized human well-being over cost savings.

Individual Corporate Humanism

It exists some places!

I definitely wouldn’t bet my life on it existing in a random company.

Re: Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

#66

Post by array_key_first »

aeternum wrote: post #8

Sad. And perhaps a controversial take but consider the counterfactual: Should it be illegal to fire employees that recent took mental health leave? Get a bad review or put on a PIP? It's already becoming a common strategy to immediately take mental health/sick leave.

There will always be people who abuse the system, no matter what system you have.

The solution is not to burn down all systems and just wild west everything. No. The solution is to anticipate the fraud, and build it into your margins and planning. Recognize it will always happen. And, in fact, the optimal amount of fraud is never zero. Because preventing fraud, too, has a cost, and it grows exponentially.

Re: Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

#67

Post by Dracophoenix »

no_wizard wrote: post #35
fortran77 wrote: post #33

I’m not sure about third party responsibility for suicide. It’s a horrible, tragic situation.

If you believe a person can drive another person suicide through how they act, I don’t see how this would be any different, especially since they both rely on power asymmetry. If we don’t want to hook MongoDB responsible in some manner than we need to remove that asymmetry

Define "drive". Correlation is not causation. It's difficult to anticipate the trigger for a particular action or choice when other circumstances or stressors may have more significant factors that contributed to the decision. After all, many have lost jobs without ending their own lives and many have killed themselves despite high-profile, gainful employment. Instead, holding MongoDB responsible risks incentivizing this company and others to turn away and preemptively furlough anyone remotely approaching the statistical profile of a suicide risk.

Re: Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

#68

Post by citizenpaul »

xvxvx wrote: post #41

From their site: 'Employee mental health and wellbeing is another core focus at MongoDB. It’s important for us to help break the stigma around mental health and provide our employees with the support they need, especially at work. We are dedicated to providing our employees with valuable tools to face all of life’s challenges and offer mental health programs that provide confidential assistance from qualified profess…

I worked at a smallish startup where on the wall behind reception in huge raised letters. The owner had installed "company values" like trust accountability, ect. It was referred to internally as the "wall of lies" rather thab reception or lobby. The owner was a total sociopath.

Re: Employee commits suicide after MongoDB fired her during mental health leave

#70

Post by ironmagma »

GiorgioG wrote: post #62
ironmagma wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First step is going to be for you to admit you’re actively stopping it.

The first step is for you to get your head out of the sand and look around. Jobs are scarce unless you're knee-deep in ML/AI. You're talking like a naive, idealistic, young person. I'm long past any of those attributes and I do have a family and a mortgage. Sure you can move to Europe, workers have more rights...and they earn a hell of a lot less than we do here in the USA (my brother lives in Europe.) And even there…

HN is known for its optimism and abundance mindset. Aside from that, being group actions, reform hinges on mobilizing those who are able to do so to help those who are not. The phrase “solidarity” comes to mind, and that was the whole point. We need a solidarity mindset, not a sarcastic “good luck with that” mindset.
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