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The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

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Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#61

Post by Xelbair »

gorgoiler wrote: post #52

I love The Internet, it came into my life as I became an adult, I’ve watched it change the world, and I find attempts to lock it down to be abhorrent. I also grew up in a world where intelligence fieldcraft was an in-person activity where it was just about possible for one side to keep track of the other side, or at least hold some kind of leverage, counter-leverage, and counter-counter-leverage to stop the Cold War…

>I sympathize with nation states’ urge to be able to see what’s going on online, but I hate the way they’re going about it. How do we balance a free Internet against a need to crack down on foreign influence?

and more importantly - whose influence? how do we pick whom do we ally ourselves with and who we go against? How do we prevent such system from being abused to just entrench current powers that be, and stifle genuine opposition?

If it is done behind closed doors, there's not much difference in EU becoming like Russia or China, with a coat of liberal paint instead.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#63

Post by kgwxd »

Zealotux wrote: post #57

In the ancient Greek colony of Locri, any who proposed a new law would do so with a rope around their neck, if the law was voted down, they would get hanged. Food for thought.

I don't think that system would have the desired results in a world where most people have already voted to hang themselves.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#64

Post by simonebrunozzi »

Zealotux wrote: post #57

In the ancient Greek colony of Locri, any who proposed a new law would do so with a rope around their neck, if the law was voted down, they would get hanged. Food for thought.

Zaleucus [0] from Locri wrote the first law system in the 7th century BC. Might be connected to what you have shared.

Today's Locri is in Calabria, a region in Italy that many consider infested with mafia-like organizations, which is of course sad, but also ironic.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaleucus

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#65

Post by KomoD »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #11
dr00tb wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can recommend https://njal.la if you still need port forwarding.

how does it compare to mullvad?

One reason not to choose Njalla is that they changed their legal entity without (to my knowledge) telling anyone. THat's a bit of a red flag for me.

They were incorporated as 1337 Services LLC in Nevis (the Caribbean island) and recently it suddenly changed to Njalla SRL in Costa Rica. Looks like some guy wrote a post about it where he contacted them, they said "internal restructuring, nothing to worry about" and refused to elaborate further.

I know Peter Sunde (of TPB fame) founded it but I don't know if it has changed hands now.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#67

Post by like_any_other »

delusional wrote: post #42
ori_b wrote: post #17

Until people lobby for these privacy rights to be enshrined in law, this will continue to be a problem. Defeating one bad law isn't enough.

[flagged]

> Fix the problem the proposal tries to fix, and the proposal goes away.

Bullshit. We are by far - by FAR - the most surveilled we have ever been in history, including under the worst of the Stasi, yet they lie to us about "going dark". The most minuscule scrap of privacy is a problem to be solved to them.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#68

Post by 63stack »

hkpack wrote: post #20

To be honest, I think VPN businesses and specifically politically charged ones like Mullvad is doing disservice for the security of the country and specifically EU in this case. I think the right course of action should be a political activism, not a technological one. Especially when the company doing it makes a fortune. The course, when one can just disengage from participating in society by sidestepping the proble…

>So instead of speaking from the high ground, please, tell us what your solution about mass disinformation happening from US social media megacorps, Russia mass disinformation, mass recruitment of people for sabotage on critical infrastructure.

Why is the onus of explaining this on the people opposing it? Did any of the proposing politicians ever explain how their plan is going to solve any of these, rather than just being a massive power grab packaged up in "think about the children"? There are plenty of explanations on why this is not going to stop crime, why do you want more explanations and solutions from people telling you this is not going to work, rather than asking the people proposing "how is this going to work"?

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#69

Post by quotemstr »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #64
Zealotux wrote: post #57

In the ancient Greek colony of Locri, any who proposed a new law would do so with a rope around their neck, if the law was voted down, they would get hanged. Food for thought.

Zaleucus [0] from Locri wrote the first law system in the 7th century BC. Might be connected to what you have shared. Today's Locri is in Calabria, a region in Italy that many consider infested with mafia-like organizations, which is of course sad, but also ironic. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaleucus

Once social trust (or assibiyah, to use Ibn Khandun's term) in a region collapses, it often returns slowly or not at all. Sadly common pattern in history. I think one could plausibly argue that in this way, Calabria never recovered from the collapse of antiquity, the Gothic wars, and generations spent as a Christian-Muslim war zone.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#70

Post by flumpcakes »

And hopefully this gets voted down like all the other laws. Even if it passes, it will probably be repealed or just not enforced within some member nations.

At least this is talked about and discussed... unlike in China, or Russia, or the US's own 20+-years-and-still-going-patriot act.

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