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CUDA Tile Open Sourced

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Re: CUDA Tile Open Sourced

#61

Post by OneDeuxTriSeiGo »

fooblaster wrote: post #29

Let's see if developers sleepwalk into another trap to keep us locked into nvidia's hardware for the next decade.

CUDA Tile is an open source MLIR Dialect so it wouldn't take much to write MLIR transforms to map it from the Tile IR to TOSA or gpu + vector + some amdgpu or other specialty dialects.

The Tile dialect is pretty much independent of the nvidia ecosystem so all it takes is one good set of MLIR transform passes to run anything on the CUDA stack that compiles to tile out of the nvidia ecosystem prison.

So if anything this is actually a massive opportunity to escape vendor lock in if it catches on in the CUDA ecosystem.

Re: CUDA Tile Open Sourced

#63

Post by CamperBob2 »

ipnon wrote: post #57
CamperBob2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the whole problem. I had to "R" multiple "FMs" before one of them bothered to define the acronym. Stop carrying water for poor documentation practice.

It's kind of like if the Django README explained how SQL works, the structure of HTTP requests, best practices for HTML, and so on. If you don't know what MLIR is, you might not be the target audience for this library. Nvidia in general doesn't prioritize developer experience as much as companies like Meta do for open source projects like React.

HTTP and HTML are very common acronyms; nobody should be getting out of high school these days without knowing them, and if they somehow managed to do so, they're darned sure not reading HN. Even SQL is pretty hard to avoid if you've been in an IT-adjacent industry for a while.

However, MLIR is a highly-specialized term. The problem with failing to define a term like that is that I don't know up front if I'm the target audience for the article. I had to Google it, and when I did that, all I found at first were yet more articles that failed to define it.

Wikipedia gets the job done, but these days, Wikipedia is often a long way down the Google search results list. I think they downranked it when they started force-feeding AI answers (which also didn't help).

Re: CUDA Tile Open Sourced

#64

Post by fragmede »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #23
fragmede wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get why it feels frustrating when someone snaps "just google it." Nobody likes feeling dumb. That said, there’s a meaningful difference between asking a genuine question and demanding that every discussion be padded to accommodate readers who won’t even type four letters into a search bar. Expecting complete spoon-feeding in technical threads isn’t curiosity; it’s a refusal to engage. Learning requires participatio…

You're posting a spirited defense of substandard technical writing. Just curious -- why is that?

Because I think the norm we reinforce here actually matters.

When confusion gets framed as "this is substandard writing", it rewards showing up and performing a lack of context rather than engaging with the substance or asking clarifying questions. Over time that creates pressure to write to the lowest common denominator, instead of the audience the author is clearly aiming at.

HN already operates on an implicit baseline (CUDA, open source, LLVM, etc.) and mostly lets comments fill in gaps. That usually produces better discussions than treating every unfamiliar term as an author failure, especially when someone is just trying to share or explain something they care about.

So yeah, I am genuinely curious why you see personal unfamiliarity as something the entire discussion should reorganize itself around.

Re: CUDA Tile Open Sourced

#65

Post by nl »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #2

Will be interesting to see if Nvidia and other have any interest & energy getting this used by others, if there actually is an ecosystem forming around it. Google leading XLA & IREE, with awesome intermediate representations, used by lots of hardware platforms, and backing really excellent Jax & Pytorch implementations, having tools for layout & optinization folks can share: they really build an amazing community. Th…

> Groq exclusive license

non-exclusive license actually.

Re: CUDA Tile Open Sourced

#66

Post by fragmede »

reactordev wrote: post #34
fragmede wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get why it feels frustrating when someone snaps "just google it." Nobody likes feeling dumb. That said, there’s a meaningful difference between asking a genuine question and demanding that every discussion be padded to accommodate readers who won’t even type four letters into a search bar. Expecting complete spoon-feeding in technical threads isn’t curiosity; it’s a refusal to engage. Learning requires participatio…

Easy, if that’s how you feel, skip the comment and don’t engage. Telling people who want to have that participation and discussion to “RTFM” is not a good response. Often you’ll come across the authors on these posts that can shed direct, 1st person evidence, of what we’re talking about. So please, when someone asks “what is that?” Don’t respond with “RTFM”.

Asking "what is this?" is fine. Treating "I was unfamiliar with this" as evidence that the post is deficient is not.

HN already assumes a baseline of technical literacy. When something falls outside that baseline, the usual move is to ask for context or links, not to reframe personal unfamiliarity as an author failure.

So please, don’t normalize treating "I don’t know this yet" as a failure of the post.

Re: CUDA Tile Open Sourced

#67

Post by saagarjha »

OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #61
fooblaster wrote: post #29

Let's see if developers sleepwalk into another trap to keep us locked into nvidia's hardware for the next decade.

CUDA Tile is an open source MLIR Dialect so it wouldn't take much to write MLIR transforms to map it from the Tile IR to TOSA or gpu + vector + some amdgpu or other specialty dialects. The Tile dialect is pretty much independent of the nvidia ecosystem so all it takes is one good set of MLIR transform passes to run anything on the CUDA stack that compiles to tile out of the nvidia ecosystem prison. So if anything thi…

Yes, but why would you want to use this over the other MLIR dialects that are already cross platform?

Re: CUDA Tile Open Sourced

#68

Post by CamperBob2 »

fragmede wrote: post #64
CamperBob2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're posting a spirited defense of substandard technical writing. Just curious -- why is that?

Because I think the norm we reinforce here actually matters. When confusion gets framed as "this is substandard writing", it rewards showing up and performing a lack of context rather than engaging with the substance or asking clarifying questions. Over time that creates pressure to write to the lowest common denominator, instead of the audience the author is clearly aiming at. HN already operates on an implicit base…

When confusion gets framed as "this is substandard writing", it rewards showing up and performing a lack of context rather than engaging with the substance or asking clarifying questions. Over time that creates pressure to write to the lowest common denominator, instead of the audience the author is clearly aiming at. ... So yeah, I am genuinely curious why you see personal unfamiliarity as something the entire discussion should reorganize itself around.

(Shrug) The fact is that all major style guides -- APA, MLA, AP, Chicago, probably some others -- call for potentially-unfamiliar acronyms to be defined on first use, and it's common enough to do so. For some reason, though, essentially nobody who writes about this particular topic agrees with that.

Which is cool -- it's not my field, so I don't really GAF. I'm mostly just remarking on how unusually difficult it was to drill down on this particular term. I'll avoid derailing the topic further than I already have.

Re: CUDA Tile Open Sourced

#69

Post by __patchbit__ »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #54
ipnon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPU programming definitely is not beginner friendly. There's a much higher learning curve than most open source projects. To learn basic Python you need to know about definitions and loops and variables, but to learn CUDA kernels you need to know maybe an order of magnitude more concepts to write anything useful. It's just not worth the time to cater to people who don't RTFM, the README would be twice as long and be…

That's the whole problem. I had to "R" multiple "FMs" before one of them bothered to define the acronym. Stop carrying water for poor documentation practice.

Use the AI prompt to pinprick learn.

Just say to the AI, "Explain THIS".

Re: CUDA Tile Open Sourced

#70

Post by dahart »

saagarjha wrote: post #51
pjmlp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For NVidia it suffices this is a Python JIT allowing programming CUDA compute kernels directly in Python instead of C++, yet another way how Intel and AMD, alongside Khronos APIs, lag behind in great developer experiences for GPU compute programming. Ah, and Nsight debugging also supports Python CUDA Tiles debugging. https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/simplify-gpu-programming-w...

Nsight does not have a debugger.

What do you mean? Are you unaware of Nsight VSE? https://developer.nvidia.com/nsight-visual-studio-edition
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