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Is Firefox Firefucked?

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Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#61

Post by Loudergood »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #24
mmastrac wrote: post #2

Firefox's main problem is Firefox users. Seriously, there's nothing but griping about it but it's pretty much the only browser holding back the rendering engine monopoly (intentionally excluding WebKit).

The community today is the result of 10+ years of disappointment. Some are long enough following Firefox to remember what has been lost, and some have grown and cultivated their grudges over a long time. And people know, there will never be a golden age of Mozilla again, from this point on it's just survival. For many, it's probably just a relationship of necessary evil they have to swallow.

The problem is the same exact on that MS was slapped for with IE, except there are 3 major platforms now so none of them are a monopoly.

Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#62

Post by ChrisArchitect »

[dupe]

Discussions:

Mozilla appoints new CEO Anthony Enzor-Demeo

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46288491

Is Mozilla trying hard to kill itself?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46299934

No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46295268

Make Me CEO of Mozilla

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46303809

Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#63

Post by cogman10 »

triceratops wrote: post #53
cogman10 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google paid Mozilla a pretty penny to make Google the default search engine [1] [1] https://www.theregister.com/2025/03/12/mozilla_doj_google_se...

I'm aware. How is that a move against the Firefox userbase? It seems fairly neutral. If you don't like the default engine, change it. I set mine to Duckduckgo.

> How is that a move against the Firefox userbase

Were this 10 years ago, I'd say nothing. Today, google is turning into one of the worst at using user data against the users. From pushing ads disguised as search results to mining user data for adverts across platforms.

Making google the default search engine opts non-savvy users into using a bad actor for their searches.

Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#64

Post by triceratops »

cogman10 wrote: post #63
triceratops wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware. How is that a move against the Firefox userbase? It seems fairly neutral. If you don't like the default engine, change it. I set mine to Duckduckgo.

> How is that a move against the Firefox userbase Were this 10 years ago, I'd say nothing. Today, google is turning into one of the worst at using user data against the users. From pushing ads disguised as search results to mining user data for adverts across platforms. Making google the default search engine opts non-savvy users into using a bad actor for their searches.

I see. And that makes it a bad browser for you? You're clearly capable of switching the default. What's your complaint? Do you pay for Firefox?

Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#65

Post by thw_9a83c »

softwaredoug wrote: post #28

I just don’t understand the purpose of the Mozilla foundation any more. They’re a non profit? But seem to do the bidding of big tech? I have no sense of what they stand for That plus seeming to chase every hype wave (Crypto, now AI) I just don’t get why I should care about them.

> I have no sense of what they stand for

There a nice Mozilla Manifesto explaining the Mozilla mission and their values [1].

Apparently, it's difficult to find a stable, independent, and effective revenue model for an open-source browser that is completely free as a product, should not contain shady ads or product promotions, does not sell user data, and always puts the user first.

This is especially difficult because there are other free browsers with a similar mission that don't need to incur the cost of developing their own web engine.

[1]: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#66

Post by graypegg »

mmastrac wrote: post #2

Firefox's main problem is Firefox users. Seriously, there's nothing but griping about it but it's pretty much the only browser holding back the rendering engine monopoly (intentionally excluding WebKit).

I can't really defend Mozilla's priorities or business model myself, but I do agree that Firefox users create this massive pessimistic cloud overtop of firefox. From what little I know, the Firefox MPL license isn't restrictive at all, other than forcing you to not re-license existing MPL code. Another corporate sponsor could take on the torch, pay a bunch of ex or current mozilla devs/contributers, and make EarthTurtle or WindBird or something. Not just stripping things out of Firefox, but working on the browser engine/js engine/etc, starting from Firefox today and diverging.

Users tend to talk about mozilla like it's holding firefox hostage or something, but really the main gripe they have is building and maintaining browsers is beyond the scope of an individual. THEY couldn't fork firefox, but it's not impossible for someone with resources and connections to MAKE an entity that does. It just... hasn't happened again. Mozilla is a pretty insane freak-of-nature in the business world, and there's honest frustration about that which grows into "Firefox is doomed".

Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#67

Post by [deleted] »

mmastrac wrote: post #2

Firefox's main problem is Firefox users. Seriously, there's nothing but griping about it but it's pretty much the only browser holding back the rendering engine monopoly (intentionally excluding WebKit).

[deleted]

Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#68

Post by bjord »

kerkeslager wrote: post #60
bjord wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you on android or iOS?

I'm on iOS.

I'm a kagi fan, but my family members who I've had try orion ran into quite a few issues. Might be worth trying one of these with regular safari:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ublock-origin-lite/id674534269...

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/wipr-2/id1662217862

on android I use firefox with the regular ublock origin extension

Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#69

Post by cogman10 »

triceratops wrote: post #64
cogman10 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is that a move against the Firefox userbase Were this 10 years ago, I'd say nothing. Today, google is turning into one of the worst at using user data against the users. From pushing ads disguised as search results to mining user data for adverts across platforms. Making google the default search engine opts non-savvy users into using a bad actor for their searches.

I see. And that makes it a bad browser for you? You're clearly capable of switching the default. What's your complaint? Do you pay for Firefox?

> And that makes it a bad browser for you?

No, I'm just stating why using google as the default engine is user hostile.

> What's your complaint?

Mostly that it's a user hostile move. Is it bad enough to make me personally switch? No. Part of why I use firefox is because I don't like the idea of consolidation for browsers into one renderer.

Organizations can make decisions I don't like and I'll still use their products. I'm allowed to identify those as issues. Mozilla hasn't done something that'd make me boycott their products.

> Do you pay for Firefox?

Yes, I donate to the Mozilla foundation.

Re: Is Firefox Firefucked?

#70

Post by E39M5S62 »

h43z wrote: post #45

Firefox is really in a sad state. The politics, ideology is getting worse and the tech is still bad. Kind of crazy that they waste everyones battery and cpu https://b.43z.one/2025-02-12/ Am I the one who is crazy and nitpicking here?

That's a fascinating bit of sleuthing! 1.5 watts is a substantial amount of energy when you're in the 4 to 5 watt overall usage range. You're not crazy and nitpicking.
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