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Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

euronews.com

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Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#61

Post by showsover »

MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

> On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you get to feel like a local and experience life in another place.

Yes, if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays. Having an airbnb in your building is terrible as you don't know the people and they don't care about getting to know you.

> Hotels suck as they cut corners to the point where an article posted here complaining about the lack of bathroom doors in hotels.

The great thing about hotels is that they can be planned for and zoned correctly for. Even so, I've had a hotel go up 100m from my apartment and had to invest in blackout blinds since they chose for a modern design with glass all over (and the lights are bright at night).

The biggest problem here in Barcelona is that most airbnbs / short term rentals are companies buying housing as an investment and so are stealing the opportunity from actual people and families trying to live.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#62

Post by socalgal2 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #45
daedrdev wrote: post #9

The main issue with going after airbnb is that its a true bandaid fix: the gains in supply are often offset by just a few years or months progression of the underbuilding of supply

Sure, but the article is specifically about that subject, while the government been working and continues to work on many other fixes too. Limiting rent increases, among other things, is constantly being talked and enacted right now, so at least it's going in the right direction. Airbnb is one of many problems, and all of them require something done about it. But one does not exclude the other, if you look up the "Sp…

How does limiting rent increases help the issue? all that does is reduce the incentive to build more housing. It’s also a bandaid fix that sounds good today but in the end makes things worse.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#63

Post by yardie »

rdtsc wrote: post #10
probably_wrong wrote: post #5

As far as I understand this is the latest shot in the conflict between Spain and its lack of affordable housing. I'd put the symbolic start around 2004-2006 [1] with the movement called "you won't have a house in your fucking life" where people all over Spain started demonstrating against high apartment prices. I don't like AirBnB and I'm glad they got fined, but the Spanish government also needs to accept that they…

> I don't like AirBnB and I'm glad they got fined, but the Spanish government also needs to accept that they have been sitting around doing nothing for roughly 20 years. Looks like politicians all over will do everything in their power except actually building more apartments. I am totally unfamiliar with Spain, but wondering what would government have to do to improve the situation? They wouldn’t build government ow…

The Spanish financial crisis in 2009 was an overabundance of private debt. Developers used that debt to build lots of flats, too many in all the wrong places. Those developers then went out of business and construction has been moribund since then.

A lot of other European governments took on too much public debt and had to enforce austerity measures. This proved very unpopular.

Unlike the US, the Spanish government did not bail out private industry debt. And so 15 years later here we are. Not enough housing stock and not enough private builders to carryon building more.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#64

Post by tedggh »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #17

I distincly recall many articles stating that for ridiculous EUR like 50k you could buy housing in spain right after 2007 the crisis, for many years afterward. Because it was so overbuilt , at least outside of the big metros) that the builders and sellers were desperate to move. I wonder if they all wiped out by the crisis (subprime really hit spain hard), and what we are seeing now is the consequence of that wipeout…

I got myself a pretty little condo in Asturias for a steal, at least compared to US prices. I tried first just outside Madrid but it’s crazy expensive there, I saw a small and modern condo and they wanted more of what I paid for a brand new large home in the US very close to a big city, massive in size by European standards. If you want a modern tiny condo in Madrid city center you are looking at over a million euros for sure. Almost NYC prices. But Asturias is so freaking beautiful, and people are sooo laid back and kind, the best! There’s also a train that takes just over 3 hours to Madrid.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#65

Post by embedding-shape »

socalgal2 wrote: post #62
embedding-shape wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the article is specifically about that subject, while the government been working and continues to work on many other fixes too. Limiting rent increases, among other things, is constantly being talked and enacted right now, so at least it's going in the right direction. Airbnb is one of many problems, and all of them require something done about it. But one does not exclude the other, if you look up the "Sp…

How does limiting rent increases help the issue? all that does is reduce the incentive to build more housing. It’s also a bandaid fix that sounds good today but in the end makes things worse.

Because now people aren't priced out of their current place where they live simply because the landlord wants more money each month, now it's limited to increases by an index. And landlords can also not just kick out a tenant, raise the rent price and find someone else.

Again, many small streams make a big river. Not one single action or new law will instantly fix the issue, you patch what you can and incrementally work towards something better.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#66

Post by socalgal2 »

dvt wrote: post #22

This is not just a problem in Spain. Affordable housing is a problem in almost every Western metro, both in the US and in Europe. The problem is caused by the financialization of real estate. I know it's always been a bit of a financial asset, but the past 40 years have really seen this accelerate to pretty crazy levels. The issue, when you boil it down to the basics is: wealthy folks, development companies, overseas…

That is not the issue. The issue is supply. People keep blocking construction of new housing and so prices go up and therefore it becomes an investments. increase the supply and it would no longer be an investment and you could not charge high rents

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#67

Post by bsoql »

igtztorrero wrote: post #19
bsoql wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://i.imgur.com/UcmNiWf.jpeg How much effect will 65000 flats have on this?

Everyone likes the warmth of Spain in winter

Those coming overwhelmingly come from places that are hotter than Spain.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#68

Post by alfyboy »

I was recently evicted from my apartment in a city in Norway experiencing similar growth in short-term rentals. The rental on that apartment was around €750 (same for my roommate). Apparently, during high season in the winter similar apartments goes for ~€830 a night. High season is 3 months in the winter, but seemingly that is enough to outcompete longterm tenants.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#69

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

seer wrote: post #52
dvt wrote: post #22

This is not just a problem in Spain. Affordable housing is a problem in almost every Western metro, both in the US and in Europe. The problem is caused by the financialization of real estate. I know it's always been a bit of a financial asset, but the past 40 years have really seen this accelerate to pretty crazy levels. The issue, when you boil it down to the basics is: wealthy folks, development companies, overseas…

I don’t think that is the only solution. I like what Singapore is doing - having a government built “base level” of housing that is both abundant and readily available - it can anchor the price where deep excesses are harder to end up with. It’s like a market where a very significant player keeps the price law, because of its own reasons. In such a scenario the price will not go up as sharply, so there would be less…

Singapore is very special in that 80% of the population lives in "public" housing.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#70

Post by Ekaros »

alfyboy wrote: post #68

I was recently evicted from my apartment in a city in Norway experiencing similar growth in short-term rentals. The rental on that apartment was around €750 (same for my roommate). Apparently, during high season in the winter similar apartments goes for ~€830 a night. High season is 3 months in the winter, but seemingly that is enough to outcompete longterm tenants.

There is 12 months in a year. So that can be covered in 12 days... So even half a month would be more... Seems broken...

I have nothing against short or medium term rentals. If they are limited percentage of housing as total. This percentage is rather low.

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