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Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

electrek.co

61–70 of 165 posts

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#61
post #18

Most minor fender benders are not reported by the involved people, whereas even the most minor ones often caused by other humans must be assiduously reported by any company doing such a rollout. A responsible journalist with half a clue would mention that, and tell us how that distorts the numbers. If we correct for this distortion, it’s clear that the truth would come out in Tesla’s favor here. Instead the writer em…

Every 40,000 miles is every 2nd year for the average American. Every 500,000 miles is once in a lifetime for the average American.

Using your own personal experience, it should be obvious that trivial fender benders are more common than once per lifetime but significantly less common than one every couple of years.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#62
Electrek notoriously lies and fibs and stretches the truth to hate on Tesla and Elon as much as possible when it serves their own best interests.

This one is misleading both in that 8 "crashes" is statistically insignificant to draw conclusions as to its safety compared to humans, but also because these 'crashes' are not actually crashes and instead a variety of things, including hitting a wild animal of unknown size or potentially minor contact with other objects of unspecified impact strength.

They make other unsubstantiated and likely just wrong claims:

> The most critical detail that gets lost in the noise is that these crashes are happening with a human safety supervisor in the driver’s seat (for highway trips) or passenger seat, with a finger on a kill switch.

The robotaxi supervisors are overwhelmingly only the passenger seat - I've never actually seen any video footage of them in the driver seat, and Electrek assuredly has zero evidence of how many of the reported incidents involved someone in the driver seat. Additionally, these supervisors in the passenger seat are not instructed to prevent every single incident (they arent going to emergency brake for a squirrel) and to characterize them as "babysitting to prevent accidents" is just wrong.

This article is full of other glaring problems and lies and mistruths but it's genuinely not worth the effort to write 5 pages on it.

If you want some insight on why Fed Lambert might be doing this, look no further than the bottom of the page: Fred gives (sells?) "investment tips" which, you guessed it, are perpetually trying to convince people to sell and short Telsa: https://x.com/FredLambert/status/1831731982868369419

Feel free to look at his other posts: it's 95% trying to convince people that Telsa is going bankrupt tomorrow, and trying to slam Elon as much as possible - sometimes for good reasons (transphobia) but sometimes in ways that really harms his credibility, if he actually had any

Lambert has also been accused of astrotrufing in lawsuits, and had to go through a settlement that required him to retract all the libel he had spread: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/21838/the-truth-behind-electre...

That same source also touches on Fred and Seth's long history of swinging either side of the bandwagon in attempts to maximize personal gain off bullshit reporting. And basically being a massive joke in automotive reporting.

The owner of Eletrek, Seth Weintraub, also notably does the same thing: https://x.com/llsethj/status/1217198837212884993

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#63
post #45
post #31

FTA: "For comparison, the average human driver in the US crashes about once every 500,000 miles." Does anyone know what the cite for this might be? I'm coming up empty. To my knowledge, no one (except maybe insurance companies) tallies numbers for fender bender style accidents. This seems like a weirdly high number to me, it's very rare to find any vehicle that reaches 100k miles without at least one bump or two requ…

Yeah as much as I think that Tesla is full of shit, there’s no way this is true. I don’t know a single person that’s driven 500k miles lifetime but everyone I know has been in at least one minor accident.

The average American drives more than 600k miles in a lifetime.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#64
I can imagine why they redact the reports so much: Elon hating NGOs would gladly pay a lawyer to spend as much time suing Tesla for each crash, even if completely frivolously and with no hope of recouping any of the time and money spent, and think they were doing the great work of social justice.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#65
post #22

The title makes it sound way worse than the 7 reported crashes listed in the article. I’d be interested to see a comparison with Waymo and other self driving technologies in the same area (assuming the exist).

Converting things to rates is how you understand them in a meaningful way, particularly for things that are planned to be expanded to full scale. (The one thing I would like to see done differently here is including an error interval.)

Yeah, I'm glad that they are trying to do a rate, the problem is that the numerator in the human case is likely far larger than what they are indicating.

Of the Tesla accidents, five of them involved either collisions with fixed objects, animals, or a non-injured cyclist. Extremely minor versions of these with human drivers often go unreported.

Unfortunately, without the details, this comparison will end up being a comparison between two rates with very different measurement approaches.

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#67
post #32

I’m still waiting until I see little X Æ A-Xii playing in the street while Tesla Robotaxis deliver passengers before I buy these arguments. Until then, my children are playing in the street while these autonomous vehicles threaten their safety. I’m upset that this is forced upon the public by the government.

This would imply you feel the parent of said kid cares about said kid more than parent's company.

At this point he's just an anxious wreck on ketamine fully trusting a broken gut feel in each and every situation

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#68

The title makes it sound way worse than the 7 reported crashes listed in the article. I’d be interested to see a comparison with Waymo and other self driving technologies in the same area (assuming the exist).

We updated the title to the original. All, please remember the section of the guidelines about editorialising of title.

Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Tesla reports another Robotaxi crash

#69
post #31

FTA: "For comparison, the average human driver in the US crashes about once every 500,000 miles." Does anyone know what the cite for this might be? I'm coming up empty. To my knowledge, no one (except maybe insurance companies) tallies numbers for fender bender style accidents. This seems like a weirdly high number to me, it's very rare to find any vehicle that reaches 100k miles without at least one bump or two requ…

Somewhat amusingly, the human rate should also be filtered based upon conditions. For years people have criticized Tesla for not adjusting for conditions with their AP safety report, but this analysis makes the same class of mistake.

1/500k miles that includes the interstate will be very different from the rate for an urban environment.

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