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DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. And it should be obvious. Drugs are banned and illegal in almost every country, yet they reach the US in vast amounts. Why would a ban on GPUs suddenly work - especially since owning a truckload of GPU is perfectly legal in most countries. Smuggling them to where the demand is, is probably easier than smuggling drugs.

It is easier then smuggling drugs because US is not making it difficult to sidestep the sanctions. Hey, this random house in Delaware is buying a ton of GPUs, should we investigate? Nah, our donors don’t actually want Nvidia stock to go down so ignore it.

I don’t think the root problem is political corruption or donors.

If anything, the hundreds of millions of dollars from AI lobbyists would overwhelmingly support anything that would prevent anyone outside of the US getting their hands on computer chips.

The AI lobby in support of banning export of chips is way greater than anyone lobbying the opposite.

> should we investigate? Nah, our donors […]

The US government is a very slow moving bureaucracy. Slower to adapt than the slowest moving large public company.

The GPU chip issue came about suddenly, out of the blue, and caught the government unprepared. When that happens, it typically takes government years to catch up and figure out how to adapt.

Even in cases where incentives are aligned in favor of the government’s position, they still take forever to roll out meaningful change with effective enforcement - e.g. charging sales tax on software business, remember that Supreme Court case years ago? Or remember all the concern about engineer salaries being de-categorized as R&D? These are examples that are legally decided but gov is incredibly slow to enforce. The Wayfair supreme court case was back in 2018, right? Many years later, most SaaS companies are still getting away with not charging sales tax. Certain states are just now stating to enforce, 7 years later.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just selling my RTX 4090 on Ebay recently and got a ton of bids from Chinese accounts. The winner ($2,325) had Australia set as the country on their profile, but a Chinese name on the account, and the order shipping address was to a different Chinese name (to a regular single-family house in Delaware). Most bidders straight up had China as their profile country. So my 4090 (24 GB) is probably going to get turne…

People with Chinese names do sometimes live in Delaware.

And Australia; ~5% of Australia's population is Chinese origin.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#64

this is revenge for stealing their silkmoths isnt it?

and their proprietary tea strains and forcing them to allow opium to be sold in their country and forcing them to give up major port cities and open up trade against their wishes Honestly whenever China gets around to getting its served-extremely-cold revenge for all the savagery committed against it in the 19th and 20th centuries, some chips are going to be the least of everyone's problems.

Also, porcelain, paper and gunpowder. And maybe (don't remember exactly), magnetic compass.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#65

Imagine being a blackmarket GPU smuggler. High danger and high reward to get the most advanced AI silicon to a corporation operating under a repressive regime. Sounds straight out of sci-fi.

The wild part is that it sounds sci-fi, but the reality is probably way less glamorous

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#66

What's strange in this discussion of chips and export bans is there's been zero discussion of cloud access, I guess networked computers are difficult for America's gerontocrats to understand. I've rented H100s no problem on American servers and there's no KYC or anything, they let anybody do it.

Yes, it’s easy, cheap and it works. Maybe they need a super big volume and all the GPUs in the same space, to guarantee minimum latency.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#68
What do you want to bet ALL GPU's being manufactured by US sources have NSA requirements that now have built into the chips and firmware interesting "controls". They know what region of the world the chip is in, they have features to "brick them" in case of war, etc. Encrypted communication back to US servers required, or if denied, then GPU will not function, etc.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#70

I’ve seen comments saying that many foundational model providers like DeepSeek haven’t done a full pretraining in a long time. Does that mean this use of chips is in reference to the past?

Even if they're not doing full-from-scratch training every cycle, any serious model updates still soak up GPU hours
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