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The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

aaronstannard.com

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Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#61

Post by prawn »

denkmoon wrote: post #7
snikeris wrote: post #5

Nearly 2 in 5 Americans are covered by Medicare or Medicaid. TANSTAAFL. The other 3 bear the burden. At some point Atlas shrugs and decides welfare is a better deal.

In Australia 5 out of 5 people are covered by Medicare, and 5 of them bear the burden. (at some point in their life. assuming they become a tax payer, which seems likely for most.)

More info on Australia from a quick search.

  - Public hospital birth is about $0-1k USD.
  - Private hospital with health insurance: $2-3k USD
  - Private without insurance: typically up to $13k USD
Private health insurance is nowhere near $40k here. Can be down around US$100/mo for a single or US$300ish/mo for a family, depending on inclusions.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#62

Post by vkou »

peter422 wrote: post #34
o11c wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of money the US Government pays just for that 40% should be enough to cover all 100%. We know this is possible because it happens in other countries, which have shorter waits and more coverage since that talking point keeps being brought up despite collapsing in the face of reality.

The quality of health care in the US is significantly higher than anywhere else in the world. Whether that quality is necessarily (or good) is debatable, but we are getting something for the money. You also are just completely wrong in your main point. We cannot provide the same efficacy of healthcare as we are now for 60% less. We are the richest country in the world, labor costs more here than other places.

Expenses are definitely higher, and doctors and hospital CEOs and med school CEOs do drive nicer cars and have bigger summer dachas, but I can't say the same about quality. Six month waits for a specialist, every PCP and shrink you'd want to visit not taking on new patients, ER wait times comparable with other developed nations, worse overall outcomes...

Maybe the top 0.5% is getting better care, but I really wouldn't shed a lot of crocodile tears for them.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#63

Post by estimator7292 »

mhb wrote: post #44
losvedir wrote: post #29

Hmm, counting the insurance premiums 100% towards the birth of the child is a bit misleading. Presumably, you'd be paying those even if you didn't have the child. That said, the cost of health insurance for a family is pretty outrageous. My premiums are along the same lines as the ones here (although less noticeable since they're paid by my employer).

Also not a big impact on the message, but $200/mo for a phone is a bit disingenuous.

I pay about that much for a family of 2.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#64

Post by Aaronontheweb »

emmelaich wrote: post #49

Related: Car Seats as Contraception https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/731812 > We estimate that these laws [mandating safety seats] prevented fatalities of 57 children in car crashes in 2017 but reduced total births by 8,000 that year and have decreased the total by 145,000 since 1980.

I actually thought about including this in the piece (and how car sizes become a problem once you hit 4+ kids) but decided to keep it more focused on just the healthcare costs

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#65

Post by EA-3167 »

vkou wrote: post #46
yen223 wrote: post #41

Over here in Australia, the most expensive part of my kid's birth were the AUD$200 antenatal classes. The prenatal checkups, hospital stay, and postnatal midwife home visits were all covered by Medicare. The flip side is that I lose ~30% of my pay to taxes. That's fine by me

> The flip side is that I lose ~30% of my pay to taxes. That's not a flip side, that's what you'd be paying in the US, too, once you account for all your payroll taxes. Maintaining 11 carrier strike groups and a global empire don't come for free.

Our military spending is enormous, but it's dwarfed by what we spend on healthcare. The problem with our healthcare system isn't that we have a military, it's the gross and intentional profit-seeking behavior of insurers and many others in the system. They see the government as a bottomless pit of money that they can tap with lobbying, and the result is that we pay stupid prices for absolutely everything, on the assumption that it will be negotiated down somewhat by private or public insurance.

If you look at how $1 of public spending on healthcare is used in the US vs countries with better healthcare, it becomes obvious where the problem is, and it isn't in the ocean. An anti-military ideological stance is one thing, but you don't need to inject it into this.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#66

Post by abigail95 »

AstroBen wrote: post #33
denkmoon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia 5 out of 5 people are covered by Medicare, and 5 of them bear the burden. (at some point in their life. assuming they become a tax payer, which seems likely for most.)

The burden of this isn't a big one to bear. I just compared tax rates for a $65k USD income in Australia vs the US. You'd be taxed ~$800 less in Australia.

There's no way that's true - include the employer side payroll taxes. Whether PPP or nominal my napkin math gives me 40% more tax payable in Australia

Edit: I'm too dumb to know whether to include superannuation as a tax or not so I'm not sure if I'm right or not.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#67

Post by oldgregg »

There is tons of fear-mongering around a natural process-- I had a 24 yo friend deliver his first child off grid by himself. There are also a ton of independent midwives out there where you can deliver either at home or a midwife center for a fraction of the cost.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#68

Post by Aaronontheweb »

peter422 wrote: post #53
Aaronontheweb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Massive government subsidies for health care consumption not only eliminate, but disincentivize price discovery. If your biggest consumers of health care (seniors) have access to the best health insurance plan in the world (Medicare), that's going to drive costs up

Your whole argument is that the health care system should be optimized for the most productive members of society (like you, right now). You are perfectly fine to have that belief, but the majority of people disagree with you, which is one of the primary reasons the system is designed as it is.

I think the market can do a better job of optimizing than central planning ever can - the problem is we have both the costs of capitalism and socialism concurrently with the model we have now. A worst of both worlds scenario.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#69

Post by christina97 »

yen223 wrote: post #41

Over here in Australia, the most expensive part of my kid's birth were the AUD$200 antenatal classes. The prenatal checkups, hospital stay, and postnatal midwife home visits were all covered by Medicare. The flip side is that I lose ~30% of my pay to taxes. That's fine by me

NYC effective tax rates exceed 30% (if earning in excess of $100k).

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#70

Post by edm0nd »

beefnugs wrote: post #8

You are absolutely right meatbag producer! Your brand new bundle of joy is expensive, but who can put a price on love? The system is designed to keep you in debt and near poverty as long as possible. But do not fret! If the meatbag is properly trained up to a point, and no further. It will be a hard working productive member of DisneyAICORP. And after working very hard and following instructions it may someday be abl…

Cant pay your child birth bill? Easy solution! You can just name your child after one of our pre-approved corpo sponsors and we'll take care of the rest.

- Cinderella

- Moana

- Mulan

- Cruella

- Mark (property of Meta™)

- Ariel

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