Earlier quoted context omitted.
Strange framing, isn't it? Bariatric surgery shows 25-65% significant regain rates depending on definition and timeframe. And regular dieting is even worse. Nobody would frame that as a safety issue. That's... just how weight loss works, not a unique GLP-1 problem. Calling a return of symptoms (obesity) a "safety issue" is like saying insulin has "no safe off-ramp" because diabetics get hyperglycemic when they stop t…
At some point, somebody at the site changed the title. The old title was "GLP-1 Drugs Improve Heart Health, But Only If You Keep Taking Them." How do I know that? The URL slug tells the tale. > Fear gets clicks, I guess I strongly suspect this is the reason the title was changed.
There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
61–70 of 106 posts
Re: There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
#62Interesting. Saying, "there may not be a safe off-ramp," doesn’t feel quite right. The article describes people losing weight while on the drugs and then regaining weight after stopping them. That's not ideal, but it does imply an off-ramp, just with regressions. Compare that to something with no real off-ramp: testosterone replacement therapy. Once you're on TRT, you can permanently suppress your body's own testoste…
As an experienced polysubstance researcher, that's not exactly accurate. TRT cessation does not inherently cause men to have suppressed hormone levels after. With precautions and extra steps like HCG to maintain leydig cell/testicular function, preventing atrophy, one may safeguard against that risk. Coming off TRT, yes you will have lower levels as your HPTA has been suppressed by exogenous hormones. One may speed u…
As someone diagnosed with ADHD, I wasn't aware of this (although I haven't had reason to research GLP-1's). Is this just your N=1 or an effect proven in studies?
Re: There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
By what mechanism? That's not how it works. LH and FSH are suppressed when you're on TRT, but they stabilize after cessation. The question is, why would someone with clinical hypogonadism cease TRT?
> That's not how it works. LH and FSH are suppressed when you're on TRT, but they stabilize after cessation. The testes atrophy over time when LH and FSH are suppressed. Even if LH and FSH return (which isn’t guaranteed) the testes need to be able to respond to those hormonal signals, but atrophied testes do not respond the same. For someone with true intractable hypogonadism this hardly matters because they weren’t…
Then your sample is either very limited or very weird, because I test my testosterone, and my friends who did multiple cycles in the past (10–15+ years ago, and not huge competition level doses) are also within the normal range.
Re: There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
#64I suspect the manufacturers view this as a feature not a bug. :-) More seriously, I find the article's conclusions to be pretty much what I'd expect. Most medicines aren't permanent cures and obesity results from a variety of factors with lifestyle and diet being major elements.
I was seriously obese for decades and about 9 years ago, hovering on the edge of becoming diabetic and other serious obesity-related health issues (high BP, IBS/GERDS, chronic apnea, etc), I decided I had to do something. GLP-1's weren't available then but none of the other typical approaches, including medically supervised diets worked more than a few months. Doing my own research, I discovered keto (this was before keto became big) and decided to try it. It was hard at first but also remarkably effective. I lost over 100 pounds in 8 months, becoming fit and seeing abs for the first time in my life. As I lost the weight, all the other health issues resolved too. But I knew if I returned to my previous diet and habits, I'd eventually grow obese again. Many people will take GLP-1s, lose weight but then stop and regain the weight because they didn't change their underlying behavior. Just like many people do with dieting, keto or any other intervention. But any intervention that works can be an invaluable for the few willing to understand, use it as a tool and do the work.
I stayed strict keto for 5 years. Long enough to train my body and mind how to be fit and healthy as normal (not a temporary diet). Then I started a rigorous process of gradually transitioning away from strict keto over a period of two years and that's also worked. I still eat a pretty low carb diet averaging less than 100g or less a day and will for life because there is no "Eat whatever junk you want and stay fit", at least for my metabolism. Reading that article, the criticisms of GLP-1s would also apply to keto or just "eat less, move more". If you stop the intervention, the system returns to state. However, for me keto helped me break an insidious pattern driven by habit, metabolism and blood sugar levels. I was then able to adopt new patterns. I suspect GLP-1s could help others in a similar way. Obviously, there is no magic drug that "cures" obesity by making you immune to bad habits and the physics of calories in/calories out.
Re: There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s true. You can even go on Reddit and find anecdotes and guides about which clinics to call and what to say to get prescribed with minimal hassle. Some of the clinics were even prescribing anabolic steroids intended for terminal cancer patients. If you want to read about something even crazier, look up the services that were started during COVID to be prescription mills for Adderall or Xanax. The relaxed COVID pre…
Did you use a LLM to write these comments?
> This patient expressed no gender dysphoria, but he got hormones, too. I asked the doctor what protocol he was following, but I never got a straight answer.
Re: There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Given the general health benefits that are being observed with GLP1-s the only reason to get off them is costs imo There’s also the perverse incentives wrt broader society. Enabling the average person to control their physical health is orders of magnitude better for society and orders of magnitude less profitable than the current trends. Maybe a setup where glp drugs are nationalized and only used to further under…
What don't we understand about the obesity epidemic? The story seems pretty clear to me at this point: * Almost everyone has access to a wide variety of delicious food, which we on average enjoy eating more of than is required to maintain a healthy weight. * We don't want the government to forcibly restrict people's food access. * Research consistently shows that voluntary portion control works occasionally in the sh…
Japan does not have an obesity epidemic. The US has an extreme obesity epidemic. There does not seem to be any good genetical explanation, there might be cultural based behavioral explanations, but Japanese communities in the US are also more obese than ones in Japan (although less obese than the general US population).
So it is clearly entirely possible for a society to have plenty of easily accessible delicious food, with no major government restrictions in place, and not have an obesity crisis. And there seems to be some particularly bad environmental and/or cultural factor in the US driving the abnormally bad obesity epidemic there, and no intervention before GLP-1 has managed to reverse the trend (not that there have been many). There are a lot of theories about this topic, but no clear scientific consensus beyond "all very sweet things are probably maybe bad".
PS: I am aware that Japans "fat-tax" exists and is technically a form governement restriction, but I would assume that it plays a relatively minor role overall.
Re: There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately that’s not true any more. TRT over prescribing is a major problem right now. Studies of TRT patients have even shown that 1/4 of TRT patients may not have had their testosterone levels measured before being prescribed TRT: (Source https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6406807/ ) Completely unacceptable given how cheap testosterone testing is, but its happening. TRT clinics have also become a big busi…
>>The trick the clinics are using now is “diagnosing by symptoms”. You can't really diagnose by levels, though, unless you knew what that person's previous levels were. Setting an average across a population is not really realistic - you can't say Shaq should work to the same levels as, say, Emo Phillips. TRT is normally used due to aging, though, so you are unlikely to have your testosterone levels spontaneously rec…
I mean, bodybuilders essentially have a whole branch of alternative medicine which they have wholesale made up, so, ah, I'd be sceptical.
Re: There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
If someone shows up with a testosterone level of 700 you can (and should) explain that low testosterone is not the explanation for whatever they’re suffering from. The TRT clinics are ignoring levels or even not testing at all. They’ll find an excuse to prescribe to someone even who has clinically high levels because they want the monthly recurring revenue from keeping that customer for life.
> If someone shows up with a testosterone level of 700 you can (and should) explain that low testosterone is not the explanation for whatever they’re suffering from. I'm not going to say TRT clinics are the best actors here, but to an actual endocrinologist, diagnosing hormone issues isn't so simple as looking at single point-in-time measurement of total testosterone. Testosterone levels naturally vary even for a giv…
Re: There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
#69Interesting. Saying, "there may not be a safe off-ramp," doesn’t feel quite right. The article describes people losing weight while on the drugs and then regaining weight after stopping them. That's not ideal, but it does imply an off-ramp, just with regressions. Compare that to something with no real off-ramp: testosterone replacement therapy. Once you're on TRT, you can permanently suppress your body's own testoste…
"Those poor people have no agency and their behaviors are outside their control!" Well, I guess we have no choice but to affirm and reinforce their lack of agency and ensure we put them on drugs for the rest of their lives! It's ironic that one of the effects of this drug seems to be reducing the impact of impulsive behaviors, reducing cravings from other drugs and alcohol and cigarette addictions. The hat trick for…
Our complex modern society has a daily buy-in.
Some people were born and/or raised for it and the cost for them is nothing.
Others need to soothe the pain of shoehorning themselves into it by chain-smoking while working a jackhammer or shoveling cereal into their face while programming.
Yes, these behaviors are technically within their control, but are you really going to suggest that we can solve the underlying problem(s)?
Re: There may not be a safe off-ramp for some taking GLP-1 drugs, study suggests
#70Interesting. Saying, "there may not be a safe off-ramp," doesn’t feel quite right. The article describes people losing weight while on the drugs and then regaining weight after stopping them. That's not ideal, but it does imply an off-ramp, just with regressions. Compare that to something with no real off-ramp: testosterone replacement therapy. Once you're on TRT, you can permanently suppress your body's own testoste…
As an experienced polysubstance researcher, that's not exactly accurate. TRT cessation does not inherently cause men to have suppressed hormone levels after. With precautions and extra steps like HCG to maintain leydig cell/testicular function, preventing atrophy, one may safeguard against that risk. Coming off TRT, yes you will have lower levels as your HPTA has been suppressed by exogenous hormones. One may speed u…