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FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

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Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#61

Post by cubefox »

minimaxir wrote: post #50
cubefox wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: text-to-image models should be biased toward photorealism. This is because if I type in "a cat playing piano", I want to see something that looks like a 100% real cat playing a 100% real piano. Because, unless specified otherwise, a "cat" is trivially something that looks like an actual cat. And a real cat looks photorealistic. Not like a painting, or cartoon, or 3D render, or some fake almost-realistic-but…

As Midjourney has demonstrated, the median user of AI image generation wants those aesthetic dreamy images.

I think it's more likely this is just a niche that Midjourney has occupied.

Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#62

Post by minimaxir »

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #56
minimaxir wrote: post #41

I just finished my Flux 2 testing (focusing on the Pro variant here: https://replicate.com/black-forest-labs/flux-2-pro ). Overall, it's a tough sell to use Flux 2 over Nano Banana for the same use cases, but even if Nano Banana didn't exist it's only an iterative improvement over Flux 1.1 Pro. Some notes: - Running my nuanced Nano Banana prompts though Flux 2, Flux 2 definitely has better prompt adherence than Flux…

Flux 2 Dev is not IP censored

Do you have generations contradicting that? The HF repo for the open-weights Flux 2 Dev says that IP filters are in place (and imply it's a violation of the license to do as such)

EDIT: Seeing a few generations on /r/StableDiffusion generating IP from the open weights model.

Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#63

Post by loudmax »

cubefox wrote: post #61
minimaxir wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Midjourney has demonstrated, the median user of AI image generation wants those aesthetic dreamy images.

I think it's more likely this is just a niche that Midjourney has occupied.

If Midjourney is a niche, then what is the broader market for AI image generation?

Porn, obviously, though if you look at what's popular on civitai.com, a lot of it isn't photo-realistic. That might change as photo-realistic models are fully out of the uncanny valley.

Presumably personalized advertising, but this isn't something we've seen much of yet. Maybe this is about to explode into the mainstream.

Perhaps stock-photo type images for generic non-personalized advertising? This seems like a market with a lot of reach, but not much depth.

There might be demand for photos of family vacations that didn't actually happen, or removing erstwhile in-laws from family photos after a divorce. That all seems a bit creepy.

I could see some useful applications in education, like "Draw a picture to help me understand the role of RNA." But those don't need to be photo-realistic.

I'm sure people will come up with more and better uses for AI-generated images, but it's not obvious to me there will be more demand for images that are photo-realistic, rather than images that look like illustrations.

Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#64

Post by loudmax »

minimaxir wrote: post #41

I just finished my Flux 2 testing (focusing on the Pro variant here: https://replicate.com/black-forest-labs/flux-2-pro ). Overall, it's a tough sell to use Flux 2 over Nano Banana for the same use cases, but even if Nano Banana didn't exist it's only an iterative improvement over Flux 1.1 Pro. Some notes: - Running my nuanced Nano Banana prompts though Flux 2, Flux 2 definitely has better prompt adherence than Flux…

The fact that you have the possibility of running Flux locally might be enough of an argument to sway the balance for some cases. For example, if you've already set up a workflow and Google jacks up the price, or changes the API, you have no choice but to go along. If BFL does the same, you at least have the option of running locally.

Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#65

Post by minimaxir »

loudmax wrote: post #64
minimaxir wrote: post #41

I just finished my Flux 2 testing (focusing on the Pro variant here: https://replicate.com/black-forest-labs/flux-2-pro ). Overall, it's a tough sell to use Flux 2 over Nano Banana for the same use cases, but even if Nano Banana didn't exist it's only an iterative improvement over Flux 1.1 Pro. Some notes: - Running my nuanced Nano Banana prompts though Flux 2, Flux 2 definitely has better prompt adherence than Flux…

The fact that you have the possibility of running Flux locally might be enough of an argument to sway the balance for some cases. For example, if you've already set up a workflow and Google jacks up the price, or changes the API, you have no choice but to go along. If BFL does the same, you at least have the option of running locally.

Those cases imply commercial workflows that are prohibited with the open-weights model without purchasing a license.

I am curious to see how the Apache 2.0 distilled variant performs but it's still unlikely that the economics will favor it unless you have a specific niche use case: the engineering effort needed to scale up image inference for these large models isn't zero cost.

Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#66

Post by cubefox »

loudmax wrote: post #63
cubefox wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more likely this is just a niche that Midjourney has occupied.

If Midjourney is a niche, then what is the broader market for AI image generation? Porn, obviously, though if you look at what's popular on civitai.com, a lot of it isn't photo-realistic. That might change as photo-realistic models are fully out of the uncanny valley. Presumably personalized advertising, but this isn't something we've seen much of yet. Maybe this is about to explode into the mainstream. Perhaps stock…

Well, as I said, if I type "cat", the most reasonable interpretation of that text string is a perfectly realistic cat.

If I want an "illustration" I can type in "illustration of a cat". Though of course that's still quite unspecific. There are countless possible unrealistic styles for pictures (e.g. line art, manga, oil painting, vector art etc), and the reasonable thing is that the users should specify which of these countless unrealistic styles they want, if they want one. If I just type in "cat" and the model gives me, say, a water color picture of a cat, it is highly improbable that this style happens to be actually what I wanted.

Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#67

Post by gunalx »

beernet wrote: post #17
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

comparing a closed image model to an open one is like comparing a compiled closed source app to raw source code. it's pointless to compare in pure output when one is set in stone and the other can be built upon.

Did you guys even check the licence? Not sure what is "open source" about that. Open weights at the very best, yet highly restrictive

Yep, definetly this, They should have creds for open weigths, and bein transparent of it not being open source though. Pepole should stop being this confused when the messaging is pretty clear.

Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#68

Post by echelon »

loudmax wrote: post #63
cubefox wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more likely this is just a niche that Midjourney has occupied.

If Midjourney is a niche, then what is the broader market for AI image generation? Porn, obviously, though if you look at what's popular on civitai.com, a lot of it isn't photo-realistic. That might change as photo-realistic models are fully out of the uncanny valley. Presumably personalized advertising, but this isn't something we've seen much of yet. Maybe this is about to explode into the mainstream. Perhaps stock…

> If Midjourney is a niche, then what is the broader market for AI image generation?

Midjourney is one aesthetically pleasing data point in a wide spectrum of possibilities and market solutions.

Creator economy is huge and is outgrowing Hollywood and the Music Industry combined.

There's all sorts of use cases in marketing, corporate, internal comms.

There are weird new markets. A lot of people simply subscribe to Midjourney for "art therapy" (a legit term) and use it as a social media replacement.

The giants are testing whether an infinite scroll of 100% AI content can beat human social media. Jury's out, but it might start to chip away at Instagram and TikTok.

Corporate wants certain things. Disney wants to fine tune. They're hiring companies like MoonValley to deliver tailored solutions.

Adobe is building tools for agencies and designers. They are only starting to deliver competent models (see their conference videos), and they're going about this a very different way.

ChatGPT gets the social trend. Ghibli. Sora memes.

> Porn, obviously, though if you look at what's popular on civitai.com, a lot of it isn't photo-realistic.

Civitai is circling the drain. Even before the unethical and religious Visa blacklisting, the company was unable to steer itself to a Series A. Stable Diffusion and local models are still way too hard for 99.99% of people and will never see the same growth as a Midjourney or OpenAI that have zero sharp edges and that anyone in the world can use. I'm fairly certain an "OnlyFans but AI" will arise and make billions of dollars. But it has to be so easy a tucker who doesn't learn to code can use it from their 11 year old Toshiba.

> Presumably personalized advertising, but this isn't something we've seen much of yet.

Carvana pioneered this almost five years ago. I'll try to find the link. This isn't going to really take off though. It's creepy and people hate ads. Carvana's use case was clever and endearing though.

Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#69

Post by ThrowawayTestr »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #55

Genuine question, does anyone use any of these text to image models regularly for non trivial tasks? I am curious to know how they get used. It literally seems like there is a new model reaching the top 3 every week

I use them to generate very niche porn

Re: FLUX.2: Frontier Visual Intelligence

#70

Post by dvrp »

echelon wrote: post #13

> Launch Partners Wow, the Krea relationship soured? These are both a16z companies and they've worked on private model development before. Krea.1 was supposed to be something to compete with Midjourney aesthetics and get away from the plastic-y Flux models with artificial skin tones, weird chins, etc. This list of partners includes all of Krea's competitors: HiggsField (current aggregator leader), Freepik, "Open"Art,…

They messed up. We (Krea) were also surprised.

They put our logo after we pointed it out.

Nice eye!

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