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'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#61

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

Broussebar wrote: post #27

As the article said Duralex was the brand use by a large number of school cantinas in France. Inside of each glass there’s a small number used by the brand to identify the mold used for the creation of the glass. For kids that was a way to decide who is going to fetch the water for the table (smaller number or higher number of the table). That’s why the CE is holding his glass like that in the guardian article. Besid…

I too would like to believe that "another kind of company is possible", but this isn't a ringing endorsement...

Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#62

Post by Cyph0n »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #44
Cyph0n wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am particularly interested in coops as a model for a tech startup. How would one go about structuring a new corporation to best ensure it remains a coop?

Mondragon is a federation of worker cooperatives. You sound like you might be interested in distributism [0][1][2][3][4]. The author, John Médaille, also spoke at Google [5]. [0] https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2010/09/economics-of-... [1] https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2010/09/economics-of-... [2] https://theimaginativeconservative.org/2010/09/economics-of-... [3] https://theimaginativeconservative.or…

Thank you for the links!

Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#63

Post by Cyph0n »

saxenaabhi wrote: post #42
Cyph0n wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am particularly interested in coops as a model for a tech startup. How would one go about structuring a new corporation to best ensure it remains a coop?

Plenty of worker owned software consultancies in germany, and specially in Hamburg for some reason. From the site of one that I that I used to work for(they are very friendly so you can hit them up if you want some advice on setting up one) > How exactly are you structured? > In our search for a structure that consistently implements the principles of responsible ownership, we came across the veto-share model. First,…

Thanks!

Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#64

Post by tormeh »

chihuahua wrote: post #3

While there is no shortage of irrelevant details, the article is very light on relevant details. What prevents the factory from staying in business? Not enough orders? The French people supposedly love this glassware and orders pour in whenever the company is mentioned. They have the factory up and running, they have employees. The workers own the means of production, what could be better than that? Why do they need…

> Why not stick with what already works?

Well, apparently it doesn't work. Personally I think almost all their glassware is either ugly or generic.

Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#65

Post by mytailorisrich »

GuB-42 wrote: post #9
chihuahua wrote: post #3

While there is no shortage of irrelevant details, the article is very light on relevant details. What prevents the factory from staying in business? Not enough orders? The French people supposedly love this glassware and orders pour in whenever the company is mentioned. They have the factory up and running, they have employees. The workers own the means of production, what could be better than that? Why do they need…

As a French, my guess is simply that the brand is not price competitive and up until now, they didn't have the right marketing to justify the higher prices. Duralex is a beloved brand, and the French wouldn't like to see it go, but not enough to have much of an influence in the shopping aisle. The nostalgia aspect is real (ask the French about the numbers at the bottom of the glass ;) ), but it may be a negative when…

The issue is that it is difficult to find a marketing justification for high prices in everyday glassware... nothing more like a glass than another glass and people are obviously not prepared to pay a premium.

Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#66

Post by skylurk »

powerclue wrote: post #52
KetoManx64 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main they don't survive is not due to capitalism. (Capitalism is just trade without use of force at the end of the day) but due to the lobbying power of corporations. Corporations constantly lobby the government for more regulation and rules, which they just budget for, but smaller companies don't have the funds to meet so they cannot stay in business. Look at the first couple of years of COVID for example, Walma…

That's not what capitalism is... or it's a very elementary understanding of it. Trade without force existed prior to and contemporary to capitalism. (See markets and mercantilism for more history there.) Capitalism is specifically the sort of mercantilism under which maximizing one's capital (typically the money commodity) becomes the aim. Historically, money commodity was used to mediate exchange between two other c…

Not sure about the currency vs commodity argument, but I agree with this argument linked article:

> Thus it argues that the origin of capitalism lies fundamentally in social property relations rather than in trade and commerce.

Capitalism is fundamentally a framework for ownership and property.

Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#67

Post by mytailorisrich »

Broussebar wrote: post #27

As the article said Duralex was the brand use by a large number of school cantinas in France. Inside of each glass there’s a small number used by the brand to identify the mold used for the creation of the glass. For kids that was a way to decide who is going to fetch the water for the table (smaller number or higher number of the table). That’s why the CE is holding his glass like that in the guardian article. Besid…

> it’s a SCOP (the majority of the capital of the company is owned by the employees)

On the other hand, I suspect that this also makes it more difficult for them to change and adapt.

Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#68

Post by Zababa »

Broussebar wrote: post #27

As the article said Duralex was the brand use by a large number of school cantinas in France. Inside of each glass there’s a small number used by the brand to identify the mold used for the creation of the glass. For kids that was a way to decide who is going to fetch the water for the table (smaller number or higher number of the table). That’s why the CE is holding his glass like that in the guardian article. Besid…

>For kids that was a way to decide who is going to fetch the water for the table (smaller number or higher number of the table).

I only knew the version where your age is the number on the glass. For fetching water, it was the slowest person to say "pot d'eau" (water jug) and sometimes put a hand to your head (it depended on the group).

Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#69

Post by gniv »

cgearhart wrote: post #39

I have bought a lot of glassware over a couple decades. My usual trick is to look at restaurant supply shops, since they usually have a wide variety to select trade offs in style, price, quality, etc. Somehow I’d never come across Duralex until a few months ago when I was shopping to reorganize my own cupboards. The Duralex stuff I got has been the best glassware I’ve ever had, hands down. I’ll probably order more to…

> I get it—they’re expensive and so on—but they really are a superior product.

Where are you? Here in France they are not expensive. I bought them at Carrefour when I moved here because I liked the Picardie shape and I thought they were just one of many companies that makes them. They were surprisingly cheap (a bit more than 1 euro per glass iirc).

Re: 'The French people want to save us': help pours in for glassmaker Duralex

#70

Post by KetoManx64 »

powerclue wrote: post #52
KetoManx64 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main they don't survive is not due to capitalism. (Capitalism is just trade without use of force at the end of the day) but due to the lobbying power of corporations. Corporations constantly lobby the government for more regulation and rules, which they just budget for, but smaller companies don't have the funds to meet so they cannot stay in business. Look at the first couple of years of COVID for example, Walma…

That's not what capitalism is... or it's a very elementary understanding of it. Trade without force existed prior to and contemporary to capitalism. (See markets and mercantilism for more history there.) Capitalism is specifically the sort of mercantilism under which maximizing one's capital (typically the money commodity) becomes the aim. Historically, money commodity was used to mediate exchange between two other c…

Thank you for that correction, I did oversimplify it.

> Capitalism inverts this -- the goal is to maximize money. I start with money, I convert it to a commodity that I can sell for a greater value, to get larger money. Money -> commodity -> money. You see Amazon operate this way: "if we can put one dollar in and get $1.01 out, do it".

Yes, that is correct and there is nothing wrong with this as long as there is no coercion happening (eg. Government involvement, lobbying and over regulation).

Every person on earth should have the right to put in $1 into something and try to get $1.01 from it. You and I and every other individual get to then decide if we want to give that business owner that $1.01 or go to a competitor. In a truly free market, that business owner only earns that $1.01 profit by providing a good or service that voluntary customers value at more than the price they pay. The profit is the reward for creating value for others

We currently live in a crony-capitalist world which has a lot of issues, but it's still much better than the 200m+ that have died under Marxism and Communism in the last 100 years.

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